The Social-Engineer Podcast

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Jan 30, 2023]


00:00 – Intro

00:28 – Patrick Laverty Intro

00:58 – Intro Links

05:38 – "You never know"                                                          

06:51 – Todays Topic: The Role of Empathy in SE                                                               

07:02 – Empathy: A Definition                                                   

11:09 – 3 Kinds of Empathy                                                        

11:23 – Cognitive Empathy                                                         

12:21 – Emotional Empathy                                                        

13:00 – Empathic Concern                                                          

15:52 – The Role of Emotional Distance                                                 

16:57 – Learning Empathy                                                           

17:49 – What the Studies Show                                                

19:56 – Keeping an Open Mind                                                 

21:35 – Letting Your Life Experiences Teach You                                                

23:52 – The Social Media Bubble                                                              

25:55 – Expand And Listen                                                          

30:13 – Applying Empathy to Social Engineering                                                

31:25 – Being Adversarial                                                            

32:45 – Don't Be the Bad Guy                                                    

38:33 – The Importance of "Why"                                                            

42:51 – Using Empathy to Make the Best Choice                                               

48:07 – Using Empathy to Make the Hard Choice                                                              

49:55 – Practice Makes (Not Quite) Perfect                                                         

51:17 – Coming Up Next Month                                                               

52:08 – Wrap Up & Outro

Find us online

Today on the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Security Awareness Series, Ryan and I will have a special discussion of the 2023 security landscape. [Jan 27, 2023]


00:00 – Intro

00:27 – Intro Links:

04:25 – Don't Forget Ryan                                                           

05:11 – What Are We Talking About: 2023 Edition                                                            

05:39 – 2022 Was Rough!                                                            

07:09 – Getting Everyone Else Up To Speed                                                         

09:24 – Hackers for Hire?                                                             

12:58 – Economic Crisis = Rise in Cybercrime                                                      

15:10 – Emotional Victimizing                                                    

18:08 – Losing the Teachable Moment                                                  

20:42 – Ransomware as a Growth Industry                                                          

24:20 – MFA for All!                                                       

27:15 – There is Hope                                                   

28:40 – Make It Personal                                                             

30:47 – A Tool is Just a Tool                                                        

33:25 – Don't Recycle                                                    

34:53 – Make it Hard!                                                    

36:29 – Gotta Get it Tailored                                                      

37:47 – Trust the Process                                                            

39:40 – Wrap Up & Outro

Today we are joined by Robert Kerbeck. Robert is the founder of the Malibu Writers Circle, a lifetime member of the Actors Studio, and a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. His true crime memoir about his secret career as a corporate spy, RUSE: Lying the American Dream from Hollywood to Wall Street, has received praise from Frank Abagnale and former CIA Agent Valerie Plame. Kerbeck’s writing has appeared in numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, Los Angeles Magazine, and Lithub’s Crime Reads. [Jan 25, 2023] 

00:00 – Intro  

00:26 – Intro Links 

02:21 – Robert Kerbeck Intro  

03:28 – How do you "stumble" into becoming a corporate spy?  

06:51 – Going inside: This is Social Engineering  

08:29 – Very Dark Grey  

10:33 – We Need to Talk About Kevin  

11:25 – Making OJ look good  

15:25 – Doing what LinkedIn can't  

19:54 – Making the lie sound better than the truth  

21:13 – Setting boundaries  

22:21 – Hacking people is easy  

24:46 – Some need convincing  

26:08 – Ransomware  

28:38 – No spies here!  

30:03 – This isn't going away!  

31:08 – Knock, knock  

32:35 – Hacking the human  

34:59 – Find Robert Kerbeck online 

35:43 – Who do you consider your mentors? 

36:49 – Book Recommendations: 

38:00 – Guest Wrap Up  

38:26 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.


In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are discussing: Shame. We will talk about how shame helps us, hinders us, why some people can deal with it and why some can’t. We’ll also discuss various coping strategies and more.  [Jan 02, 2023]


00:00 – Intro

00:17 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro

00:55 – Intro Links

03:38 – The topic of the day: Shame                                                  

05:44 – Is there a positive side to shame?                                                      

07:29 – Directed by beliefs                                                    

09:02 – Cultural differences                                                  

10:14 – Shame's functionality                                               

11:16 – Societal stigma                                            

12:35 – How shame can hinder                                            

16:36 – Literal shutdown                                                       

19:30 – Emotional Blunting                                                   

22:15 – Guilt vs Shame: Sense of Self                                                

24:14 – Those who can, cope!                                              

26:54 – When shame is a symptom                                                   

28:09 – Finding a support network                                                    

30:03 – The "core" of shame                                                 

33:45 – The road to Mindfulness                                                        

37:20 – Environmental Shame                                              

38:34 – Horrifically fascinating                                             

41:06 – You have to get out there!                                                     

43:00 – Tips for our younger listeners                                               

45:25 – Remember Pen Pals?                                                

46:44 – Wrap Up                                                       

47:39 – Outro



Find us online:



Burkitt, I. (2008). Social selves: Theories of self and society. Sage.


Elison, J., Pulos, S., & Lennon, R. (2006). Shame-focused coping: An empirical study of the compass of shame. Social Behavior and Personality: an international journal, 34(2), 161-168.


Garey, S. S. (1998). Long-term effects of sibling emotional and physical abuse on adult self-concept and the associated guilt and shame. United States International University.


Gilchrist, J. D., Solomon-Krakus, S., Pila, E., Crocker, P., & Sabiston, C. M. (2020). Associations between physical self-concept and anticipated guilt and shame: The moderating role of gender. Sex Roles, 83(11), 763-772.


Harper, J. M. (2011). Regulating and coping with shame. Re-constructing emotional spaces: From experience to regulation, 189-206.


Hawes, D. J., Helyer, R., Herlianto, E. C., & Willing, J. (2013). Borderline personality features and implicit shame-prone self-concept in middle childhood and early adolescence. Journal of Clinical Child & Adolescent Psychology, 42(3), 302-308.


Kinston, W. (1983). A theoretical context for shame. International Journal of Psycho-Analysis, 64, 213-226.


Krüger, S., & Rustad, G. C. (2019). Coping with shame in a media-saturated society: Norwegian web-series Skam as transitional object. Television & new media, 20(1), 72-95.


Nathanson, D. L. (1987). The many faces of shame. In Partially based on a symposium held in Los Angeles, 1984 for the 137th Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association.. The Guilford Press.


Rüsch, N., Lieb, K., Göttler, I., Hermann, C., Schramm, E., Richter, H., ... & Bohus, M. (2007). Shame and implicit self-concept in women with borderline personality disorder. American journal of psychiatry, 164(3), 500-508.


Scheff, T. J. (2003). Shame in self and society. Symbolic interaction, 26(2), 239-262.


Tangney, J. P. (1996). Conceptual and methodological issues in the assessment of shame and guilt. Behaviour research and therapy, 34(9), 741-754.


Taylor, P. J., McDonald, J., Smith, M., Nicholson, H., & Forrester, R. (2019). Distinguishing people with current, past, and no history of non-suicidal self-injury: Shame, social comparison, and self-concept integration. Journal of Affective Disorders, 246, 182-188.


Taylor, T. F. (2015). The influence of shame on posttrauma disorders: have we failed to see the obvious?. European journal of psychotraumatology, 6(1), 28847.

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Dec 26, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:29 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

01:18 – Intro Links 

05:04 – Todays Topic: Dumpster Diving 

06:27 – Shelby Dacko Intro 

08:38 – Patrick’s Pizza Adventure 

14:34 – Who is Shelby? 

15:51 – 9 Times 

19:20 – The continuing importance of OSINT 

20:44 – What are some "typical" goals for a "break-in"? 

22:40 – Concerns with 3rd party security 

23:08 – Shelby's nighttime find 

26:37 – Shelby's Trash Talk 

31:02 – All the luck 

33:20 – A moment in time 

35:37 – Situational Awareness 

38:58 – The 4th Step 

41:02 – Diversity of thought 

42:06 – Cut me some SLACK 

44:39 – "It's more about the raccoons" 

46:50 – Wrap Up & Outro 


Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 

Today our guest is Steve Orrin. Steve is a respected IT executive with over 30 years of experience in cybersecurity, solution architecture, virtualization security, and federal project management. Orrin earned a Bachelor's in Honors Research Biology from Kean University. He currently serves as a Federal Chief Technology Officer and Senior PE for Intel Corporation. He is also a key advisor and subject matter expert in the emerging technologies space, providing guidance to the Public Sector, Defense, and Intelligence communities. [Dec 19, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:55 – Intro Links: 

03:43 – Steve Orrin Intro 

04:26 – How did a biologist become a CTO at Intel? 

09:10 – The evolution of security attacks 

12:22 – Humans are humans 

13:18 – Higher-risk targets 

13:54 – If I knew then...LISTEN! 

15:09 – Speak the language 

16:27 – Making limoncello out of lemons 

17:36 – Check your ego 

19:04 – The prerequisites 

21:06 – A Self-fulfilling Prophecy of Awesome Things 

22:15 – Perfection is the Enemy of Good 

26:06 – Handling failure 

28:12 – Culturing opportunities 

30:37 – Ninja skills 

32:07 – Have you had mentors in your career? 

33:42 – Book Recommendations  

35:52 – Find Steve Orrin online 

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50. She was honored as the #1 Communication Coach by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards and one of the Top 5 Communication Professionals in the World by Global Gurus.  


She is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Long Game, Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine. 


A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, Clark has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and consults and speaks for clients such as Google, Yale University, and the World Bank. 


She is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, a producer of a multiple Grammy-winning jazz album, and a Broadway investor. [Dec 12, 2022]  


00:00 – Intro  

00:18 – Intro Links 

02:37 – Dorie Clark Intro 

04:01 – How did you decide to become a leadership expert? 

05:26 – Defeating the "gatekeepers" 

08:06 – The benefits of Social Proof 

12:34 – Has the "long game" changed in the last 10 years? 

15:36 – The rise of FOMO 

18:19 – Getting back to long-term thinking 

19:52 – You don't have to "Take the Leap!" 

25:32 – Be 2 years older with straight teeth 

27:42 – Confusing "busy" with "important" 

31:40 – Deciding what to be bad at 

36:16 – Who do you consider your mentor? 

40:28 – Find Dorie Clark online 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are discussing: Natural born killers, or monsters in the making? 

We are all curious about the origins of evil and violence. We see a story on the news and ask ourselves, how could anyone do that? So, let’s dive into how. We are not going to cover specific cases and talk about specific serial killers, because you lose the science and we “celebritize” serial killers.  [Dec 05, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:19 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

00:52 – Intro Links 

03:37 – The topic of the day: Natural born killers, or monsters in the making? 

04:48 – Born this way? 

08:25 – The "X" Factor 

10:11 – Self-soothing 

13:18 – The importance of Anxiety 

14:34 – Made by the military 

15:23 – You can't pick and choose 

18:18 – Gag reflex 

19:50 – Who's to blame? 

20:59 – The "Criminal Gene" fallacy 

24:39 – A happy ending 

26:50 – “This isn't set in stone” 

29:31 – Silver Linings 

31:13 – “It's a bit of both” 

32:02 – Misguided markers 

35:42 – Is there prevention? 

39:05 – Minority Report 

41:18 – An unsupportive system 

42:34 – Touch is vital! 

45:26 – An interesting (NOT FUN!) quote 

46:27 – Wrap Up 

47:07 – The request lines are open! 

47:35 – Outro 



Entail, W. D. A. S. K. (2021). Are Serial Killers Born or Made?. 


Johnson, B. R., & Becker, J. V. (1997). Natural born killers?: The development of the sexually sadistic serial killer. Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Online, 25(3), 335-348. 


Ioana, I. M. (2013). No one is born a serial killer!. Procedia-Social and Behavioral Sciences, 81, 324-328. 


Mitchell, H., & Aamodt, M. G. (2005). The incidence of child abuse in serial killers. Journal of Police and Criminal Psychology, 20(1), 40-47. 


Miller, L. (2014). Serial killers: I. Subtypes, patterns, and motives. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 19(1), 1-11. 


Wiest, J. B. (2016). Casting cultural monsters: Representations of serial killers in US and UK news media. Howard Journal of Communications, 27(4), 327-346. 


Wrangham, R. W., Wilson, M. L., & Muller, M. N. (2006). Comparative rates of violence in chimpanzees and humans. Primates, 47(1), 14-26. 


Newton-Fisher, N. E., & Thompson, M. E. (2012). Comparative evolutionary perspectives on violence. 


Marono, A. J., Reid, S., Yaksic, E., & Keatley, D. A. (2020). A behaviour sequence analysis of serial killers’ lives: From childhood abuse to methods of murder. Psychiatry, psychology and law, 27(1), 126-137. 


Marono, A., & Keatley, D. A. (2022). An investigation into the association between cannibalism and serial killers. Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, 1-12. 


Entail, W. D. A. S. K. (2021). Are Serial Killers Born or Made?. 


Njelesani, J., Hashemi, G., Cameron, C., Cameron, D., Richard, D., & Parnes, P. (2018). From the day they are born: a qualitative study exploring violence against children with disabilities in West Africa. BMC public health, 18(1), 1-7. 


Boyle, K. (2001). What's natural about killing? Gender, copycat violence and Natural Born Killers. Journal of Gender Studies, 10(3), 311-321. 


Formosa, P. (2008). The problems with evil. Contemporary Political Theory, 7(4), 395-415. 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Nov 28, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:24 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

00:43 – Intro Links 

03:26 – Todays Topic: How do you become a Social Engineer? 

05:16 – The Art of the Conversation  

05:36 – The old college try! 

07:49 – It's all in the report 

11:37 – OSINT: The SE Lifeblood 

13:53 – How do you learn this? 

16:48 – Don't rely on tools, rely on OSINT 

19:14 – The APSE origin story  

25:13 – It's really about communication  

25:45 – Learning from DISC 

29:24 – It's not all bad 

30:24 – This isn't 9 to 5 

33:50 – Conversation with a purpose 

34:57 – Back to the reports 

38:27 – APSE and beyond 

43:36 – Sorry...Invite Only 

45:50 – 'Tis the season 

46:41 – Never stop learning 

48:27 – Always different, never boring  

49:32 – The next generation  

51:28 – Coming up next month 

52:03 – Wrap Up & Outro 


Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 


Marc Ashworth is a respected IT executive with over 30 years of experience in cyber and physical security, IT/security architecture, project management, is an author and a public speaker.  He is a board member of the St. Louis Chapter of InfraGard, Webster University Cyber Advisory board, Co-Founded the State of Cyber annual security conference, and a Lifetime member of FBI Citizens Academy, possessing security certifications in CISSP, CISM, CRISC, Security+ and other certifications.  As the Senior Vice President and Chief Information Security Officer at First Bank, Marc currently oversees First Bank’s information security, fraud, physical security, and the network services departments. He is also the 2022 Cyber Defense Magazine winner of “Top 100 CISOs in the World.” [Nov 21st, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:49 – Intro Links: 

03:15 – Marc Ashworth Intro 

05:17 – What was the path that led you to InfoSec? 

07:41 – Cultivating good security practices 

09:31 – Learning to "scale" your security 

11:22 – The value of Strategic Thinking 

13:40 – It's all in the presentation 

15:25 – The importance of Customer Service 

18:32 – The Art of Translation 

21:32 – Small Wins 

24:34 – Letters to a young CISO 

26:20 – Don't avoid Pen Testing! 

28:11 – Adopting a "Partnership" mindset 

30:30 – Long line of influence 

33:40 – Book Recommendations 

36:14 – Find Marc Ashworth online 

38:36 – Wrap Up  

38:56 – Outro 


Today we are joined by Stephanie Paul. Stephanie is an actress, a trainer, and keynote speaker. She has over 30 years of experience in the entertainment industry and she uses that now as she coaches and trains executives, sales teams, Tedx speakers and experts of all kinds to become master communicators. She is also a proud member of EOA and on the board of the directors of the Alzheimer’s Association in Orange County. She is an active member of WIB, and the Vice Chair of Young Women in Bio. 

[Nov 14th, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro  

00:23 – Intro Links 

02:10 – Stephanie Paul Intro 

02:59 – How did you go from acting to coaching communications? 

06:34 – Dark Side of the Moon 

08:03 – The Magic of Story 

09:14 – Can anyone learn to use storytelling? 

11:43 – Practice, practice, practice! 

13:49 – How is storytelling used in Leadership? 

16:31 – Reflecting your values 

18:15 – The beauty of mistakes 

21:32 – You're not born with it! 

23:28 – Mentorship 

28:32 – The importance of Accountability 

30:10 – Make them want the banana 

33:24 – Valley Girl 

35:39 – Find Stephanie Paul online 

36:50 – Women In Leadership 

37:49 – Book Recommendations: 

40:55 Who are your greatest mentors? 

44:42 – Guest Wrap Up 

45:17 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are not just going to talk about nonverbal communication at an observational level, but lay the ground work for a deeper understanding of nonverbals. Not just what certain behaviors tell us but WHY they tell us this, and where nonverbal communication originated from! [Nov 07, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

01:10 – Intro Links 

04:01 – The topic of the day: Nonverbal Communication 

10:25 – Everything comes back to Darwin 

15:25 – In Utero 

18:54 – A picture speaks 1000 words 

20:31 – More "nature" than "nurture" 

23:20 – Cultural vs Universal Gestures 

27:17 – Looking at "Intention" 

32:24 – Linking Non-verbals to Intention 

36:32 – The Doctor is REALLY in! 

38:37 – Don't Look Up (or away!) 

42:35 – Response Behavior 

46:58 – Neuroception - Trust your gut! 

53:48 – The Takeaway 

56:04 – Man's Best Friend 

57:13 – Wrap Up  

58:53 – Book Recommendations 


Select research: 

Allen, S. (2018). The science of awe (pp. 58-69). Greater Good Science: John Templeton Foundation. 

Bargh J, Chartrand T (1999) The unbearable automaticity of being. Am Psychol 54: 462–479. 

Bousmalis, K., Mehu, M., & Pantic, M. (2013). Towards the automatic detection of spontaneous agreement and disagreement based on nonverbal behaviour: A survey of related cues, databases, and tools. Image and vision computing, 31(2), 203-221. 

Bryant, G. A. (2020). Evolution, structure, and functions of human laughter. In The handbook of communication science and biology (pp. 63-77). Routledge. 

Chakrabarty, S., Widing, R. E., & Brown, G. (2014). Selling behaviours and sales performance: the moderating and mediating effects of interpersonal mentalizing. Journal of Personal Selling & Sales Management, 34(2), 112-122. 

Chen M, Bargh JA (1999) Consequences of automatic evaluation: Immediate behavioral predispositions to approach or avoid the stimulus. Pers Soc Psychol B 25: 215–224. 

Demuru, E., & Giacoma, C. (2022). Interacting primates: the biological roots of human communication. Ethology Ecology & Evolution, 34(3), 201-204. 

Ekman, P. (1971). Universals and cultural differences in facial expressions of emotion. In Nebraska symposium on motivation. University of Nebraska Press. 

Ekman, P., & Keltner, D. (1973). Universal facial expressions of emotion. Studia Psychologica, 15(2), 140-147. 

Gordon, R. A., & Druckman, D. (2018). Nonverbal behaviour as communication: Approaches, issues, and research. In The handbook of communication skills (pp. 81-134). Routledge. 

Heuer, K., Rinck, M., & Becker, E. S. (2007). Avoidance of emotional facial expressions in social anxiety: The approach–avoidance task. Behaviour research and therapy, 45(12), 2990-3001. 

Mathis, V., & Kenny, P. J. (2018). Neuroscience: brain mechanisms of blushing. Current Biology, 28(14), R791-R792. 

Müller, P., Huang, M. X., & Bulling, A. (2018, March). Detecting low rapport during natural interactions in small groups from non-verbal behaviour. In 23rd International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces (pp. 153-164). 

Neidlinger, K., Truong, K. P., Telfair, C., Feijs, L., Dertien, E., & Evers, V. (2017, March). AWElectric: that gave me goosebumps, did you feel it too?. In Proceedings of the Eleventh International Conference on Tangible, Embedded, and Embodied Interaction (pp. 315-324). 

Parr, L. A., Micheletta, J., & Waller, B. M. (2016). Nonverbal communication in primates: Observational and experimental approaches. 

Pohjavaara, P., Telaranta, T., & Väisänen, E. (2003). The role of the sympathetic nervous system in anxiety: is it possible to relieve anxiety with endoscopic sympathetic block?. Nordic journal of psychiatry, 57(1), 55-60. 

Reissland, N., & Austen, J. (2018). Goal directed behaviours: the development of pre-natal touch behaviours. In Reach-to-Grasp Behavior (pp. 3-17). Routledge. 

Schug, J., Matsumoto, D., Horita, Y., Yamagishi, T., & Bonnet, K. (2010). Emotional expressivity as a signal of cooperation. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(2), 87-94. 

Segerstråle, U., & Molnár, P. (2018). Nonverbal communication: where nature meets culture. Routledge. 

Waterson, R. H., Lander, E. S., & Wilson, R. K. (2005). Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome. Nature, 437(7055), 69. 

White, P. (2016). Reading the Blush. Configurations, 24(3), 281-301. 

Woud, M. L., Maas, J., Becker, E. S., & Rinck, M. (2013). Make the manikin move: Symbolic approach–avoidance responses affect implicit and explicit face evaluations. Journal of Cognitive Psychology, 25(6), 738-744. 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Oct 24th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

00:58 – Intro Links 

03:28 – This month’s dumpster dive: Great Stories 

04:01 – Oceans 11 1/2: Ryan Didn't Die 

05:14 – Let the testing begin! 

06:36 – OSINT & Building a Pretext 

10:06 – Never lose focus of your SCOPE 

11:52 – Stay with the Pretext! 

14:53 – Don't Drink & Shred 

18:36 – Always working 

19:55 – The Story Continues... 

29:14 – You can't prepare for Bad Luck 

35:04 – Being an advocate, not an adversary 

36:46 – Not quite a clean getaway 

38:40 – The value of stories 

40:34 – Coming up next month 

41:43 – Wrap Up & Outro 



Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 


Direct download: Ep._184_-_SE_Etc_Series_-_Ryan_Didnt_Die_with_Patrick_and_Chris.mp3
Category:SE Etc. -- posted at: 7:55am EST

Today our guest joining us is Kevin Gowen. Kevin serves as Chief Information Security Officer for Synovus and is responsible for information and cyber security, physical security, business continuity, fraud, and financial crimes. He was named Chief Information Security Officer in 2015. Gowen earned Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Mechanical Engineering from the Georgia Institute of Technology. He was a recipient of the James H. Blanchard Leadership award and was named Tech Exec Networks’ Information Security Executive of the Year in May 2022. Gowen is an alumnus of Leadership Columbus and serves as a board member of the National Technology Security Coalition along with serving on multiple advisory boards and in industry group leadership roles. [Oct 17th, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links: 

03:55 – Kevin Gowen Intro 

05:55 – What made you want to go into InfoSec? 

06:56 – Managing Risk with teams of 10,000+ 

08:24 – How do you stay in front of the next attack? 

10:15 – Top 3 Talking Points to assure the stakeholders 

11:27 – How do you educate the customer? 

13:04 – The "push" during Cybersecurity Awareness Month 

14:23 – That's not Amazon! 

15:55 – How are you attracting and retaining talent during this employee drought? 

20:23 – Poaching vs Developing 

22:46 – Communicating the need for diversity down the ladder 

24:25 – Cross-industry and Inter-department hiring 

26:24 – If I knew then... 

28:41 – Defining our "true" critical assets 

30:03 – Be willing to be evaluated 

32:32 – Who helped get you to where you are today? 

34:47 – Find Kevin Gowen online 

39:28 – Wrap Up  

40:13 – Outro 

Today we are joined by David Hill. David is currently a licensed real estate broker in Massachusetts and is also a Success Certified Business Coach and Cardone University Sales Trainer. Davis has been a top producing real estate agent for over 18 years as well as a phone sales trainer with over 36 years’ sales experience in multiple industries. David is also the host of the Path to Mastery podcast and the author of two books, “The Sales Playbook” and “Getting your Quality of Life back”. David also enjoys traveling, spending time with his 3 daughters and his wife, and enjoys exercise as a triathlete who has competed in an Ironman Race. [Oct 10th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

00:20 – Intro Links 

01:41 – David Hill Intro 

02:41 – How did you get started in sales? 

03:51 – The way sales have changed over the decades  

07:15 – Improving your quality of life 

09:45 – Setting Standards 

11:48 – Getting over the fear of setting boundaries 

16:38 – The Power of Resilience 

19:37 – Developing your own Grit 

23:14 – Steps to finding your passion 

28:48 – Strategic Thought Time 

31:28 Who are your greatest mentors? 

33:42 – Book Recommendations: 

36:36 – Find David Hill online 

37:26 – Guest Wrap Up 

37:54 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


This is Episode 181 and hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. 


Joining Chris is co-host Dr. Abbie Maroño. Abbie is Director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, and a perception management coach. She has a PhD in Behaviour analysis and specializes in nonverbal communication, trust, and cooperation. 


Today’s conversation will be on the topic of Can You Fake It Till You Make It. [Oct 03, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:21 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

01:16 – Intro Links 

03:45 – The topic of the day: Can you fake it till you make it? 

05:15 – The Power of the Mind 

06:53 – The Placebo Milkshake 

12:07 – The difference with disorders 

14:09 – “I'm gonna be happy!” 

15:55 – Facial Feedback Hypothesis 

21:00 – The power of expression 

22:18 – Botox for happiness? 

30:27 – Power Posing 

37:39 – V is for Victory! 

39:07 – The basis of non-verbals 

41:34 – Self Talk 

44:34 – All or Nothing 

47:37 – Public Speaking or Firing Squad? 

49:34 – Book Recommendations 

50:26 – Wrap Up  

50:58 – Find us online 

51:48 – Outro 


Select research: 


Carney, D. R., Cuddy, A. J., & Yap, A. J. (2010). Power posing: Brief nonverbal displays affect neuroendocrine levels and risk tolerance. Psychological science, 21(10), 1363-1368. 


Coles, N. A., Larsen, J. T., & Lench, H. C. (2019). A meta-analysis of the facial feedback literature: Effects of facial feedback on emotional experience are small and variable. Psychological bulletin, 145(6), 610. 


Crum, A. J., Corbin, W. R., Brownell, K. D., & Salovey, P. (2011). Mind over milkshakes: mindsets, not just nutrients, determine ghrelin response. Health Psychology, 30(4), 424. 


Fischer, J., Fischer, P., Englich, B., Aydin, N., & Frey, D. (2011). Empower my decisions: The effects of power gestures on confirmatory information processing. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 47(6), 1146-1154. 


Garrison, K. E., Tang, D., & Schmeichel, B. J. (2016). Embodying power: A preregistered replication and extension of the power pose effect. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 7(7), 623-630. 


Gronau, Q. F., Van Erp, S., Heck, D. W., Cesario, J., Jonas, K. J., & Wagenmakers, E. J. (2017). A Bayesian model-averaged meta-analysis of the power pose effect with informed and default priors: The case of felt power. Comprehensive Results in Social Psychology, 2(1), 123-138. 


Hardy, J., Gammage, K., & Hall, C. (2001). A descriptive study of athlete self-talk. The sport psychologist, 15(3), 306-318. 


Kross, E., Bruehlman-Senecal, E., Park, J., Burson, A., Dougherty, A., Shablack, H., ... & Ayduk, O. (2014). Self-talk as a regulatory mechanism: how you do it matters. Journal of personality and social psychology, 106(2), 304. 


McIntosh, D. N. (1996). Facial feedback hypotheses: Evidence, implications, and directions. Motivation and emotion, 20(2), 121-147. 


Neal, D. T., & Chartrand, T. L. (2011). Embodied emotion perception: amplifying and dampening facial feedback modulates emotion perception accuracy. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 2(6), 673-678. 


Neary, N. M., Small, C. J., & Bloom, S. R. (2003). Gut and mind. Gut, 52(7), 918-921. 


Shackell, E. M., & Standing, L. G. (2007). Mind Over Matter: Mental Training Increases Physical Strength. North American Journal of Psychology, 9(1). 


Zamanian, A., Jolfaei, A. G., Mehran, G., & Azizian, Z. (2017). Efficacy of botox versus placebo for treatment of patients with major depression. Iranian journal of public health, 46(7), 982. 


Khademi, M., Roohaninasab, M., Goodarzi, A., Seirafianpour, F., Dodangeh, M., & Khademi, A. (2021). The healing effects of facial BOTOX injection on symptoms of depression alongside its effects on beauty preservation. Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 20(5), 1411-1415. 


Carter, Bradin T., "Is Botox A Safe And Effective Treatment To Reduce Symptoms Of Depression?" (2017). PCOM Physician Assistant Studies Student Scholarship. 404. 


Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Sept 26, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

01:12 – The Origin Story 

04:41 – The importance of knowing past breaches 

06:20 – The Twitter Breach (The F.U.D. train) 

12:25 – The Twillio Breach 

13:02 – The rise of SMISHING 

25:00 – “Don't click!” 

28:42 – The Cisco Breach 

29:19 – MFA Fatigue 

36:18 – The role of Social Engineering in these attacks 

39:40 – Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 

39:59 – Book (and Bees) Recommendations 

Today we are joined by Erin Maloney. Erin earned her Bachelor of Science degree in psychology from Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia, PA. She then earned her master’s degree in social work from Widener University in Chester, PA. Erin holds a license as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. Erin has worked in the behavioral and mental health field for over 20 years. Her experience has included: case management, addiction counseling, behavioral specialty work, school based behavioral health services, and private practice. Erin has worked with a wide range of clients from young children to older adults with a variety of mental health needs.  

Erin is also the Director of Wellness for the Innocent Lives Foundation. She has a strong passion for the mission of the foundation to help protect innocent children.  [Sept 19, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:24 – Intro Links 

02:54 – Erin Maloney Intro 

04:11 – What motivated you to become a mental health expert? 

06:58 – Helping the Helpers 

09:26 – What is "burnout" and what does it look like? 

12:35 – Tired or Exhausted? 

13:26 – Where "burnout" can come from 

14:12 – Burnout Prevention 

15:35 – The Importance of “NO” 

19:54 – How to get off the road to "burnout" 

21:08 – When open communication isn't there 

22:51 – The physical toll is real! 

24:58 – What else can we do? (Mixing it up) 

27:59 – Resources to help with burnout 

31:10 – The "little things" help 

32:01 – Is there anyone who helped you get to where you are? 

34:35 – Book Recommendations 

36:53 – Find Erin Maloney online 

37:24 – Wrap Up  

37:43 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Ronald E. Riggio, Ph.D., the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College. Dr. Riggio is a social/personality psychologist and leadership scholar with more than a dozen authored or edited books and more than 150 articles/book chapters. His research interests are in leadership and organizational communication, particularly leader nonverbal communication, and emotional competence.  He is part of the Fullerton Longitudinal Study that is examining leadership development across the lifespan (beginning at 1 year of age and continuing through adulthood).   

 [Sept 12th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

00:20 – Intro Links 

03:02 – Dr. Ron Riggio Intro 

04:13 – How did you become a professor of leadership? 

07:41 – What year did you start focusing on charisma? 

09:16 – The importance of charisma for leadership 

12:49 – How does one learn to develop personal charisma? 

15:27 – How important is getting gestures right? 

18:22 – The benefits of showing emotional expressions 

21:41 – Dynamic Attractiveness 

23:45 – What can I do to become a better leader? 

26:51 – Transformational Leadership 

28:34 – Leaders need to know their followers 

29:41 – How do you lead at scale? 

32:42 – Developing leadership capacity in others 

35:44 – The attraction to the "Strong Man" 

40:11 – Spare the rod 

44:16 – Who do you consider your biggest mentors? 

47:04 – Book Recommendations: 

50:58 – Find Dr. Riggio on the web 

51:54 – Guest Wrap Up 

52:28 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


This is Episode 177 and hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. 


Joining Chris is co-host Dr. Abbie Maroño. Abbie is Director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, and a perception management coach. She has a PhD in Behaviour analysis and specializes in nonverbal communication, trust, and cooperation. 


Today’s conversation will be on the topic of Subliminal Persuasion. [Sep 05, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:27 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

03:26 – Why this podcast? 

04:28 – The topic of the day: Subliminal Persuasion 

05:46 – What is Subliminal Persuasion? 

07:03 – The Coca-Cola & popcorn myth 

09:08 – Judas Priest Lawsuit 

10:32 – Sex on ice, does it work? 

15:00 – Getting warmer... 

16:08 – ...and colder 

18:49 – The importance of being attentive 

21:28 – Does it pass the smell test? 

22:59 – Can Prime lead to Persuasion? 

24:34 – The necessity of Motivation 

27:05 – Does Belief play a role? 

28:17 – The Smell of Fear 

32:52 – Applying the Subliminal 

38:58 – The limitations of application 

41:26 – Subtle Psychology 

44:33 – Book Recommendations 

45:42 – Find Dr. Abbie Maroño on the web 

46:26 – Find Chris on the web 

46:41 – Wrap Up  


Select research: 

Chen, Z., Tan, Y., Zhang, Z., & Li, M. (2021). Research on subliminal visual messages based on EEG signal and convolutional neural network. In MATEC Web of Conferences (Vol. 336, p. 05014). EDP Sciences. 

Damaskinidis, G., & Kostopoulou, L. (2021). Intersemiotic Translation of Subliminal Messages in Brand Logos: A Qualitative Experimental Research. International Journal of Semiotics and Visual Rhetoric (IJSVR), 5(1), 1-14. 

Dijksterhuis, A., Aarts, H., & Smith, P. K. (2005). The power of the subliminal: On subliminal persuasion and other potential applications. The new unconscious, 1, 77-106. 

Epley, N., Savitsky, K., & Kachelski, R. A. (1999). What every skeptic should know about subliminal persuasion. Skeptical Inquirer, 23(5), 40-45. 


Hsu, L., & Chen, Y. J. (2020). Neuromarketing, subliminal advertising, and hotel selection: An EEG study. Australasian Marketing Journal (AMJ), 28(4), 200-208. 


Li, N., Juan, L., Xin, W., & Xiang-hong, S. (2011, March). Effect of sustained subliminal auditory stimulus on human emotion. In International Conference on Information Science and Technology (pp. 381-384). IEEE. 


Loersch, C., Durso, G. R., & Petty, R. E. (2013). Vicissitudes of desire: A matching mechanism for subliminal persuasion. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 4(5), 624-631. 


Riener, A. (2012). Subliminal persuasion and its potential for driver behavior adaptation. IEEE Transactions on Intelligent Transportation Systems, 13(1), 71-80. 


Smarandescu, L., & Shimp, T. A. (2015). Drink coca-cola, eat popcorn, and choose powerade: testing the limits of subliminal persuasion. Marketing Letters, 26(4), 715-726. 


Strahan, E. J., Spencer, S. J., & Zanna, M. P. (2002). Subliminal priming and persuasion: Striking while the iron is hot. Journal of experimental social psychology, 38(6), 556-568. 


Zacharia, A. B., Hamelin, N., Harcar, T., & Rodgers, P. (2020). A Neuro Analysis of Static Subliminal Advertising in Packaging. EDITORIAL 77, 29, 81-104. 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Nishant Bhajaria. Nishant is an executive leader and industry-expert in the privacy and security space and currently serves as the Director of Privacy Engineering and Governance at Uber. 

He plays the critical role connecting engineering, legal, and leadership to ensure data protection for both the user and the business. Prior to Uber, Nishant spearheaded compliance and privacy engineering programs at Google, Netflix and Nike. He has a Master’s Degree in computer science from Arizona State University 

In addition to speaking extensively in this space, Nishant also teaches courses around privacy, security and career development on LinkedIn Learning. Nishant authored Data Privacy: A Runbook for Engineers - a deep dive into strategies on effectively identifying, communicating and addressing privacy risks using technical strategies. [Aug 15, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:20 – Intro Links 

02:17 – Nishant Bhajaria Intro 

03:33 – How did your career path start? 

05:44 – Balancing security and the end-user experience 

09:29 – How to introduce security and privacy concepts into a pre-existing infrastructure 

13:50 – Balancing technological freedom with security for your family 

19:28 – Bridging divisions for the sake of privacy and security 

22:09 – Creating better industry standards 

26:28 – How to handle your platform becoming weaponized 

30:53 – The ethical issue of data use 

35:11 – The role of Social Engineering in privacy and security 

39:14 – 3 action steps that companies should start doing right now 

42:56 – Find Nishant online 

44:24 – Book Recommendations 

47:13 – Wrap Up  

47:41 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Hala Taha. Hala, who has been dubbed the “The Podcast Princess,” is the host of Young and Profiting (YAP) Podcast, which is frequently ranked as a #1 Education podcast across all apps. Hala is also the founder and CEO of YAP Media, a social media and podcast marketing agency for top podcasters, celebrities and CEOs. She is well-known for her engaged following and influence on LinkedIn, and she landed the January 2021 cover of Podcast Magazine. 


Hala is an expert on networking, personal branding, leadership, social media, side hustles, entrepreneurship and podcasting. [Aug 8th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

02:05 – Hala Taha Intro 

03:14 – How did you end up running a media company? 

05:43 – The journey towards starting YAP Media 

07:01 – The early days of podcasting 

09:22 – Resources for podcasting (2018 vs 2022) 

10:38 – How did you transform a podcast into a media company? 

16:20 – Taking Risks vs Being Smart 

18:29 – The importance of pure intentions 

20:44 – The secrets to finding like-minded team members 

21:56 – What have been your biggest struggles while growing your company? 

22:52 – Quality time with a remote team 

24:51 – Maintaining the work-culture across time zones 

26:35 – Tips for starting out 

30:25 – Building the right foundation 

32:27 – Find Hala online 

33:15 – Who have been your mentors? 

35:21 – Book Recommendations: 

36:17 – Guest Wrap Up 

36:28 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by the Chief Operating Officer of the ILF, Shane McCombs.  

Shane leads the ILF with more than 25 years of experience in the tech industry, including more than a decade of experience in C-level roles. He led enterprise-wide initiatives within project management, customer relationship management and acquisition, policies and procedures, process improvement, and infrastructure. Shane is also an accomplished public speaker and trainer focused on change management, professionalism, social engineering, and corporate security. In the past, he volunteered for the Autism Hope Alliance and currently donates his time to businesses and non-profits as a trusted advisor. [July 18, 2022]  

00:00 – Intro 

01:02 – Intro Links 

04:41 – Shane McCombs Intro 

06:14 – What got you started off in InfoSec? 

08:36 – What led you to want to do more in the industry? 

10:40 – “Throwing your hat in the ring” 

17:31 – Cybersecurity for kids and parents 

19:52 – How to "minor" in a "major" topic 

22:29 – Age appropriate conversations 

25:12 – Additional concerns in the summer months 

28:38 – The TRUST Framework 

31:40 – The importance of communication 

40:16 – The "stats" of ILF 

43:50 – Who is your biggest mentor?  
- his wife  

45:32 – Book Recommendations 

Today Chris is talking with Laurie Segall. Laurie is the founder of Dot Dot Dot, a media company focused on onboarding the mainstream into a new era of the internet, Web3. Laurie is an award-winning journalist who has interviewed the world’s most influential tech leaders including Mark Zuckerberg and Tim Cook. Prior, she was CNN’s senior tech correspondent, covering technology and culture for a decade and a former reporter for 60 Minutes. [July 11, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

04:20 – Starting your career in the "wee hours"  

07:54 – Was journalism always the goal? 

12:31 – Navigating chaos 

15:57 – Taking on Revenge Porn 

21:20 – What motivated you to write about your life so early? 

24:46 – Writing during the pandemic 

29:50 – How lobsters grow  

35:44 – Building a company 

38:40 – Wearing 2 hats 

40:54 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

43:38 – Book Recommendations: 

45:56 – Find Laurie Segall online 

  • Website link: 
  • Instagram: @LaurieSegall & @d3_network 
  • Twitter: @LaurieSegall & @d3_network 

48:32 – Guest Wrap Up & Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Ted Harrington. Ted is the author of HACKABLE: How to Do Application Security Right and the Executive Partner at Independent Security Evaluators (ISE), the company of ethical hackers famous for hacking cars, medical devices, and password managers. Ted has been named both Executive of the Year by the American Business Awards and an SD Metro 40 Under 40 entrepreneur. Ted has been featured in more than 100 media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and Forbes. [June 20, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links 

02:32 – Ted Harrington Intro 

03:21 – How did you start off in this industry? 

06:15 – Explain it like I'm 12 years old 

07:59 – The origins of ISE  

09:32 – Is there a "perfect" Password Manager? 

14:11 – How to communicate at the executive level 

16:54 – The right and wrong ways of investing in security 

25:17 – Responsible Disclosure 

29:04 – The challenges of the Medical Device field 

32:39 – The problem with legislation driving security  

34:20 – The manufacturers’ role in safety and security  

36:00 – Who is the book "Hackable" for? 

38:05 – Find Ted online 

38:37 – Book Recommendations 

41:04 – Who is your biggest mentor? 

45:35 – Wrap Up  

46:17 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Clay Drinko, Ph.D. Clay is an author and educator. He writes for Psychology Today about the intersection between improv comedy, science, and everyday life. He's also the author of the first academic book connecting improv and cognitive science, Theatrical Improvisation, Consciousness, and Cognition. His most recent book, Play Your Way Sane, was published by Simon & Schuster last year and applies his improv research to everyday life. [June 14, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

02:27 – Clay Drinko intro 

03:27 – How does someone in Improv decide to study Cognitive Science? 

05:46 – Losing anxiousness through performance 

07:34 – The importance of a shift in focus 

08:52 – Active Listening 

11:41 – Yes, and... 

14:01 – Don't try to be funny 

15:54 – Establishing "who" and "where" you are 

18:57 – How do you apply Cognitive Science to the idea of improv? 

21:56 – Leaving your "baggage" at the door 

25:13 – Managing the negative 

26:40 – What are the biggest life skills you've learned from improv? 

28:13 – Reflective questioning - Empathy or Selfishness? 

31:03 – You are not special 

34:29 – Do you want my help? 

37:37 – Find Clay Drinko online 

38:13 – Book Recommendations: 

40:34 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

43:14 – Guest Wrap Up 

44:04 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Adam Glick. Adam is currently the Chief Information Security Officer for SimpliSafe in Boston, MA. In this position and his previous jobs, Adam has had the responsibility of managing all matters pertaining to information security, risk, policy, and procedures. Adam is currently an adjunct professor at Boston College in the cybersecurity policy & governance program, and an adjunct professor of IT in the MBA program at the School of Business at Providence College. Outside of the office, he is a car and technology enthusiast along with an avid reader, hiker, cyclist, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner.  

[May 16, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links 

02:52 – Adam Glick Intro 

04:05 – How did you get started in Information Security? 

05:10 – Applying a background in teaching to InfoSec 

06:37 – Developing security programs for different environments 

08:14 – Getting people to think about security 

09:32 – Microtraining: Updating the way that we train for security 

12:10 – The importance of security in our Professional and Personal lives 

14:28 – Customizing security training for large companies 

15:29 – Approaching security from a Top-Down perspective 

17:20 – Getting top management to support security training 

20:55 – Action steps for companies to focus on 

  • Cyber Hygiene 
  • Risk Based Methodology 

23:22 – How can companies assess their own risk? 

26:55 – Internal interviews to build security protocols 

28:47 – Jiu Jitsu Security??? 

29:58 – How to contact Adam online 

31:19 – Who are your greatest mentors? 

Today we will be talking with Abbie Maroño, a nonverbal communications and social influence coach. Abbie published her first paper in nonverbal communication at 19 years old, going on to do her PhD in behavior analysis and become a university lecturer at 23. She now directs a research group, BRINC, alongside her coaching and teaching. [May 9, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

04:47 – At what point in your life did you want to become a Nonverbal expert? 

06:56 – The reality of getting to where you want to be 

08:39 – What kept you going after rejections? 

11:15 – How does a person learn to find their passion? 

14:06 – How did you decide to make Nonverbal Communications a career? 

17:53 – How important is Open VS Closed Body Language? 

23:00 – What is orientation and why does it matter? 

27:49 – The role of body language in a virtual setting 

33:30 – The "perception" of eye-contact in a video call 

35:31 – Find Abbie Maroño on the web 

36:05 – New Job Announcement 

38:16 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Patrick Laverty. Patrick is the Senior Team Lead at Social Engineer, LLC, working with an incredible team of professional social engineers. He was previously a senior penetration tester at Rapid7 and a member of the CSIRT at Akamai. He is a co-organizer of the Layer 8 Conference and is the host of the Layer 8 Podcast on social engineering and OSINT. He lives in Rhode Island with his daughter, dog and two cats. [April 18, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:50 – Patrick Laverty intro 

02:19 – Intro Links 

04:38 – Security Awareness in the world today 

05:25 – Malicious Domain Registrations 

06:58 – Protecting yourself from false domains 

11:24 – CISA Alert / Shields Up 

12:36 – Lowering Reporting Thresholds 

13:33 – Empowering Security Information Officers 

16:50 – Tabletop Exercises 

19:20 – Planning for Continuity 

21:09 – Beyond the Financial Effects of Ransomware 

24:29 – Trying to protect the Healthcare Sector 

25:27 – Backup & Recovery Process 

28:38 – The source of Ransomware 

30:03 – Planning for a Ransomware attack 

31:51 – Why your site will be attacked 

33:41 – 3 Actionable Tips 

35:30 – Book Recommendations 

38:20 – Wrap Up  

39:18 – Outro 

Today we will be talking with Vanessa Bohns. Vanessa is a social psychologist and professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University. She holds a PhD from Columbia University and an AB from Brown University. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review, and her research has been widely featured in the media, including The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and on NPR’s Hidden Brain. Her first book, You Have More Influence Than You Think, was just published in September 2021. [April 11, 2022]

00:00 – Intro

01:53 – Vanessa Bohns intro

02:43 – How did you make Social Influence your field?

05:48 – Why do we assume people will be negative when we make a request?

08:01 – The surprising results of asking for things

11:12 – We are wired to be agreeable

13:34 – What are the security implications of our default attitudes?

16:59 – What are the consequences of underestimating your own influence?

19:32 – Understanding how the situation can influence ethics

21:05 – What would you say is your favorite find?

21:48 – Enlisting someone to influence their ethics

24:00 – Paying attention to the human side of security

25:04 – What is your next study?

27:11 – The importance of a predefined script

28:54 – Will "keywords" change a person’s sense of agreeability?

30:10 – Recognizing your own influence

31:41 – Who would you consider some of your biggest mentors?

  • Frank Flynn – Professor
  • Father

33:39 – Book Recommendations:

35:47 – Guest Wrap Up

36:17 – Find Vanessa Bohns on the web

36:49 – Outro


This month we are joined by Dr. Camille Preston, who is the CEO and founder of AIM Leadership. Since founding AIM Leadership in 2004, she has worked with leaders across sectors and the capital stack. As a business psychologist, Camille brings research and insights from psychology, neuroscience, and business to her work. Whether supporting Fortune 500 leaders, startup founders, or C-suite executives in healthcare, Camille's sweet spot is helping uncover hidden barriers to increase the capacity to optimize, innovate, and manage change.   

In addition to working as a coach and business psychologist, Camille is author of two books, a regular contributor to several established publications in the business and psychology fields, and the author of a growing library of actionable resource tools.  

A life-long challenge seeker, Camille has lived on four continents, worked on six, and traveled extensively. [March 14, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

01:25 Dr. Camille Preston Intro 

02:43 How did you get into this? 

05:02 The Journey to Awareness & Mindfulness 

06:39 Building Mindfulness 

08:32 Horizontal VS Vertical Development 

10:00 Gateways of Vertical Development 

11:41 Owning Mistakes 

14:02 Planning For Problem Solving  

15:12 Building Trust 

16:21 Authentic Connections in a Virtual World 

19:24 Mental Health Pandemic 

21:25 The Importance of Great Leadership 

22:41 Integrating Head and Heart 

23:53 What makes someone “all heart”? 

26:51 The Importance of Leaving Your Country 

29:45 – Who are your greatest mentors? 

33:36 – Book Recommendations: 

35:21 – Guest Wrap Up 

35:37 – Outro 

This month Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Kathleen (Kate) Mullin. Kate is an influential information security practitioner with over 30 years of experience. Kate currently is CISO with Cancer Treatment Centers of America.  Kate has been CISO at various organizations including start-ups, publicly traded, private equity, not-for-profit, and governmental entities. Throughout her career, Kate has volunteered and participated in maturing information security as a profession. She volunteers with ISC(2) and ISACA and has been a member of the ISACA CGEIT Certification and Credentials Committee and a chapter president. Kate serves as a featured international speaker and panelist. She has a BSBA from St Joseph’s College and an MBA from Florida Metropolitan University. Kate is also certified as a Master Level Social Engineer. [February 21, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

03:09 – Kathleen Mullin intro 

04:25 – How did you get started in Information Security? 

06:39 – What are some indicators that tells you something is ineffective? 

10:21 – Do you think the “cookie cutter” type of training is a reflection on the security awareness team itself? 

12:16 – How can you offer the more personalized training to a company that is spread out all over the U.S. or the globe? 

16:31 – Is having someone in this position who is focused on the people and the results the way to go about having the program be successful? 

18:09 – What are your major security concerns being in the healthcare industry, and how are you dealing with those? 

21:08 – We are seeing SMishing attacks becoming more prevalent in general. Are you seeing that happening in your industry? 

22:47 – Caring about employees’ security outside of work as well 

23:35 – What are some action steps that any company can start doing right now? 

  • Have metrics and measure training effectiveness 
  • Humanize your training 
  • Incremental steps 
  • Care about your users for real 

26:11 – Demoralizing phishing techniques 

28:15 – Book Recommendations: 

30:13 – Who would you consider your greatest mentor? 

34:27 – Finding Kate on the web: 

35:17 – Guest Wrap Up 

36:00 – Outro 

This month Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by John Strand from Black Hills Information Security. John has both consulted and taught hundreds of organizations in the areas of security, regulatory compliance, and penetration testing.  He is a coveted speaker and much-loved SANS teacher. John is a contributor to the industry-shaping Penetration Testing Execution Standard and 20 Critical Controls frameworks.  He enjoys mountain biking, getting hurt mountain biking, sucking at surfing, and heavy music. January 17th 2022 

00:00 – Intro 


02:40 – John Strand Info 

03:31 - ILF 

04:51 - Ryan intro 

06:30 – Chat about Chris getting his company started 

08:21 - How did you get started with your own company? 

12:17 - Cows 

14:56 – The idea of travel and never seeing your family 

15:57 - What was the point where you started to feel “this company is going to work” 

18:35 – Creating company loyalty 

22:06 - “Pay What You Can” training 

30:22 – More on how the pandemic changed workflow 

34:03 – More on pay-what-you-can training – management of 5,000 people 

41:41 – How can someone take action right now? 

44:59 – Favorite Books 

47:55 – Who is your biggest mentor 

51:34 – Guest Wrap-Up 

52:30 - Outro 



This is a special edition of Social-Engineer's Human Element Series Podcast.  Chris Hadnagy will discuss Covid-19 testing site scams, and how you can protect yourself against them. [January 14, 2022]


00:00 – Intro

00:21 – Covid-19 Testing Site Physical Scams

05:46 – Other types of scams during Covid-19

06:44 – Outro


This month Chris Hadnagy is joined by the fascinating Amy Herman. Amy is a lawyer and an art historian who uses works of art to sharpen observation, analysis, and communication skills. She developed her Art of Perception seminar in 2000 and since then has worked with the New York City Police Department, the FBI, Department of Defense, Fortune 500 companies and more. She is also a TED speaker and an author of 2 books. Her latest book, “Fixed: How to Perfect the Fine Art of Problem-Solving was just released in December of 2021. She is also going to be bringing her fascinating training seminar to the Human Behavior Conference this March! [January 10, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

02:39 -  Amy Herman Intro 

04:17 – Tell us how you got to where you are today 

07:12 – How did you get to the conclusion where two different people from the same class have different needs? 

10:00 – Is there an equation or secret about how an every day person can use that skill? 

13:33 – Amy's new book, “Fixed”

15:00 – How did you come up with the concept of this book? 

18:00 – What is the hope you want for people who read this? 

19:52 – How has the past 18 months changed the concepts of visual intelligence? 

25:55 – Are you going to keep virtual training? 

29:50 – Being more empathetic and finding common ground 

32:31 – Can you explain “pertinent negative” from your book? 

35:34 – Tell the story about your book cover 

40:36 – Besides yours what are some of your favorite books? 


Instagram: @AmyHermanAOP 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Adam Levin.  Adam is a nationally recognized expert on cybersecurity, privacy, identity theft, fraud, and personal finance and has distinguished himself as a fierce consumer advocate for the past 50 years. Adam is the former Director of the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs, and currently is the founder of CyberScout and co-founder of He is also author of the critically acclaimed book Swiped: How to Protect Yourself in a World Full of Scammers, Phishers, and Identity Thieves. Adam is also the host of the podcast What the Hack with Adam Levin, where they talk to fascinating people about the most terrifying things that ever happened to them in cyberspace. December 20, 2021

00:00 – Intro 

03:26 - Adam Levin Intro 

04:37 – How did you get started in the industry? 

07:42 – What has the shift been like in the types of attacks from the 90s until now? 

09:53 – How does the recent Robinhood breach tie into what we’re discussing? 

12:00 – What should people be focusing on when they hear stories like this? 

14:28 – Do these simplistic solutions really work? 

18:45 – What type of advice would you give to companies that have public facing employees? 

20:22 – You said something interesting earlier, “the company has to deal with it empathetically”.  What does that mean to you? 

24:51 – Empathy, continued 

30:22 – What do you see coming in the near future, what types of scams will become popular? 

33:53 – What are some things people can look out for to avoid scams? 

38:20 – Do you find that catastrophe and the emotional factor is used to get people to fall for scams? 

41:39 – Finding Adam on the web: 

42:57 – What are some action steps corporations can take to protect themselves? 

45:13 – Who is your greatest mentor? 

47:40 – Book Recommendations 

  • Condor – TV Show 
  • Spy novels (none specifically suggested) authors: Tom Clancy, Brad Thor, Vince Flynn 
  • Yellowstone – TV Show series 
  • FBI series and all spinoffs 

49:16 – Outro 

This month Chris Hadnagy is joined by our good friend, Anne-Maartje Oud. For 20 years Anne-Maartje has been a behavioral advisor, consultant, chairwoman, and keynote speaker. On top of that she is the CEO and founder of The Behavior Company based in Amsterdam where she helps customize personal development programs for companies and organizations worldwide.  

Anne-Maartje is also a trainer who gives lectures and training at several universities in the Netherlands. She is also going to be a trainer at the Human Behavior Conference in March 2022.  

[December 13, 2021] 

00:00 – Intro 

03:12 – Anne-Maartje intro 

04:22 – What got you started in conflict resolution? 

06:23 – Can you teach people to control behavior that’s based on emotion? 

08:53 – Before words come out, what would you tell someone to do to not react and show that emotion? 

12:30 – How do you start a conversation that leads to some benefit? 

15:35 – What if that doesn’t work? 

17:41 – How do you instruct people to remember it all? 

19:51 – How important is understanding for managers and leaders? 

20:52 - How would you instruct managers to go about learning this? 

22:27 – Do you find that companies that have upper level management that focus on behavioral analysis have less conflict down the ladder? 

27:01 – HuBe Con – what will you do there? 

29:24 – Joe Navarro co session – what is that session all about? 

36:51 – Finding Anne Maartje on the web: 

37:39 – Book Recommendations: 

Shakespeare’s Plays – favorite is Hamlet 

39:24 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

41:09 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Paul Asadoorian.  Paul is the founder of Security Weekly, a security podcast network. Paul spends time “in the trenches” coding in Python, testing security products and evaluating and implementing open-source software. Paul's career began by implementing security programs for a lottery company and then a large university. As Product Evangelist for Tenable Network Security, Paul also built a library of materials on the topic of vulnerability management. When not hacking IoT devices, web applications or Linux, Paul can be found researching his next set of headphones, devices for smoking meat, and e-bikes. November 15, 2021. 

00:00 – Intro 

03:34 – Paul Asadoorian Intro 

05:08 – How did you get started in infosec? 

13:19 – When did you decide you were going to start a podcast? 

24:26 – What have you learned from the guests you’ve had on your podcasts over all of these years? 

27:00 – What is your perspective on the shifting of hacking culture in the community? 

34:53 – What are the best qualities someone could have to be attractive to a potential employer in this industry? 

37:14 – How do we get the younger generation to have the qualities we are not seeing? 

41:38 – Who is your greatest mentor? 

51:00 – Guest Wrap Up 

53:31 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy is joined by Marilise de Villiers.  Marilise is a mindset and performance coach, a TEDX speaker, and a cybersecurity awareness, culture, and talent expert. While at one time she was a female executive in a Big Four consulting firm she is now the founder and CEO of her own company, ROAR! Coaching and Consulting, which helps people find their purpose, their power, and gives people the courage to speak their truth.  November 8, 2021 


00:00 – Intro 


04:35 – What made you leave an amazing corporate company and forge a path for yourself? 

08:09 – How did you escape the bad things in your life and turn into a person who helps other people find their strength? 

10:47 – How did you get out of the cycle of abuse? 

14:42 – Figuring out the role you play and taking back the power 

17:06 – Finding a hobby 

21:00 – How did you come upon this trifecta of things to better yourself? 

25:10 –What have you found is the overwhelmingly common problem that people have when you first start working with them on bettering themselves? 

27:56 – Changing your “self” view 

30:32 – What would be a suggestion to give someone to “start today”? 

34:35 – How do you suggest people find balance when most of us have spent most of our lives being imbalanced? 

37:20 – How has this life change for you affected your kids? 

38:55 – Who do you consider your greatest mentors? 

  • Family: Mom, dad, grandmother, grandfather 

41:05 – What books would you recommend to our listeners? 


43:15 – How to find Marilise 

44:40 – Outro  

This month Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Les Correia, who leads the evangelization of Estee Lauders Application Security. In his position Les wears many hats, but they are all worn with the mission of protecting Estee Lauders critical assets from the risk of a security breach. Prior to this, Les held Senior and Advisory roles providing thought leadership at companies such as AT&T and Lucent. Les also holds an MSc in Cyber Security as well as an exhaustive list of certifications. In his free time, Les pilots small aircraft and drives racecars. October 18, 2021

00:00 – Intro 

Managed Voice Phishing      

Managed Email Phishing      

Adversarial Simulations      


Human Behavior Conference – website coming soon 

05:10 – Les Correia Intro 

09:15 – How did you get into this industry? 

12:05 – How are you trying to be proactive in stopping breaches? 

14:00 – How important has top level support been? 

15:03 – How do you get other business units to give you time for what you’re doing? 

16:30 – Understanding the business like a business consultant helps them know you care about that business unit 

20:19 Whisky 

24:08 – What kind of attacks have you seen in the wild that people need to be aware of? 

26:10 – How do we get people that may not think they can be a victim to understand these threats can still be against them? 

27:55 – Being a worldwide company, how do you translate your security processes through all those different cultures? 

32:01 – How important is it to have hobbies outside of your work? 

34:41 – How do you help your team deal with burnout when you have so much work on your plate? 

37:56 – Has there anyone you could consider your greatest mentor? 

Dr. Tafar  

INS (International Network Services) 

Dr. Patarsh  

Dr. Menamen – NYU  

39:32 – Book Recommendations 

42:20 – Reaching Les on social media: QvittlbBgZseL100xP0S

43:12 – Outro 





This month Chris Hadnagy is joined by Dr. Jessica Barker. Jessica is an award-winning global leader in the human side of cyber security. She is Co-Founder and co-CEO of Cygenta, where she follows her passion of positively influencing cyber security awareness, behaviour and culture in organisations around the world. Jessica was also named one of the top 20 most influential women in cyber security in the UK and is the former Chair of ClubCISO. She is the author of the best-selling book Confident Cyber Security: how to get started in cyber security and futureproof your career AND co-author of Cybersecurity ABCs: delivering awareness, behaviours and culture change.   October 11, 2021.

00:00 – Intro 

Managed Voice Phishing      

Managed Email Phishing      

Adversarial Simulations      


04:21 -  How did you get into cyber security? 

06:48 – What were you researching before all that? 

08:30 – How does human behavior influence technology? 

10:00 – How has Covid-19 and the world scene impacted us when it comes to security? 

14:26 – When we look on the internet at how aggressive people have gotten, and the anonymity has enabled people to be more terrible to each other, have you seen this aggression over the last 18 months affect security? 

17:20 - Bullying 

22:05 – Why is it looked at as “bad” to use bonuses when training people? 

28:00 – What are the most positive ways to do it right? 

32:37 – How would you suggest a company chooses the right “champion”? 

36:26 – Finding Jessica on the web: 

Twitter: @drjessicabarker 

Instagram: @drjessicabarker 

37:20 – Who is your greatest mentor? 

Jane Frankland – business leader in cyber security 

39:37 -  Favorite Books 

43:26 – Outro 

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Ed Skoudis.  Ed is a SANS Institute Fellow, Instructor, and Director of Cyber Ranges.  He is the founder of Counter Hack, an innovative cyber security company that works as trusted information security advisors to government, military, and commercial enterprises by providing in-depth security architecture, penetration testing, red teaming, incident response, and digital forensics expertise. Ed frequently presents industry keynotes based on the latest attack vectors he identifies during his team’s penetration testing projects, expert witness work on large-scale breaches, security research into late-breaking malware and exploits, and incident response engagements. Over his career, Ed has taught over 20,000 students in computer incident response and penetration testing.  Ed and his team are also the creators of the SANS Holiday Hack Challenge, a free gift to the community every December challenging tens of thousands of people to build their cyber security skills in a fun, quirky adventure to save the holiday season. September 20, 2021 

00:00 – Intro 


03:26 – Ed Skoudis Intro 

05:26 – How did you get started, how did you get into this field? 

09:18 – What do you looking for when building your team? 

10:47 – How long will you observe a person to determine if they have the integrity or skill that you want? 

12:44 – What advice would you give for companies to find people with the skill and integrity they need more quickly than observing them for 2-4 years? 

22:00 – “Nothing new” in social engineering vs infosec, which is constantly changing 

23:45 – Why do you feel experience like participating in CTF’s are so valuable for people in this community?

28:57 – What is your advice for people on how to find quality CTF’s? 

32:04 – How long does it take your team to construct these challenges? 

35:54 – If someone wants to sponsor this event, where can they go? 

36:42 – Who are the colleagues or mentors that have been most influential to you, people you wouldn’t be where you are today if not for them? 

Ed’s Nana – Evelyn Hiddings 

Manager at Bellcore - Miriam Hernandez Cagle 

SANS instructor, founder of In Guardians - Mike Poor 

Security Expert - Johnny Long 

SANS founder – Alan Paller 

40:30 – What are some action steps corporations should start doing right now based on the advice you gave today to build a great team? 

Have a good corporate culture and leadership 

Be thoughtful and meaningful, make it fun, and challenge them 

Take input from your team and empower them 

43:09 – Do you have any advice for employees dealing with burnout, how to practice self-care, or other coping mechanisms? 

Monthly meeting with state of the business, business reflections 

Rituals – Get a bagel and call mom on Saturdays, morning walk, calling friends out of the blue 

Gratefulness – when stressed, pause and think about what you’re grateful for 

Get off social media for a few days 

50:27 – Book Recommendation 

51:53 – Outro 


In this episode, Chris Hadnagy is joined by Dr. Cortney Warren. Dr. Warren is a Board-Certified Clinical Psychologist and former tenured Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas (UNLV).  She is an expert on addictions, self-deception, eating pathology, and the practice of psychotherapy from a cross-cultural perspective. In addition to publishing in some of the field’s top scientific, peer-reviewed journals, Dr. Warren is passionate about bringing theoretically grounded, empirically-supported psychological research to the general public. So, in addition to her academic work, Dr. Warren is a research consultant, keynote speaker, and writes a blog for Psychology Today.  September 13, 2021


00:00 – Intro 


02:10 – Cortney Warren Intro 

03:35 – How did you get started? 

07:28 – Why is it so hard to be honest with ourselves? 

10:01 – What gets the person from “it’s easy to lie to myself” to “I’m readily open to admit this” 

13:25 – Admitting the truth is just the first step 

13:20 – There are certain ways humans lie to themselves.  One of them is “The Specialness Fallacy” 

17:43 – How do people make the change in someone who doesn’t want to make the change, they’re not at that point yet? 

21:45 – Is self-deception the same in every culture? 

25:47 – Is there a particular culture that is more honest with themselves than others? 

28:12 – Why is bringing research to the public such a mission for you? 

31:41 – How do we make the change out of self-deception? 

41:30 – Have you helped people in abusive relationships with your methods? 

44:31 – When does your book come out?

44:47 – How to reach Cortney: 

45:37 – Who is your greatest mentor? 

My mother, Karen J Warren 

48:25 – Favorite Books: 

50:16 – Outro 

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Bernie Acre.  Bernie is the Chief Information Officer for the City of Bryan, TX where he’s responsible for all technology and communications systems, including the Fire, Police, Public Works, the municipal electric utility, and a myriad of general support organizations.  Bernie is currently an appointed Member of the Texas Cybersecurity Council. Bernie has a combined 41-years of experience in information technology; including 20+ in the US Air Force and 21 years in the electric utility industry and municipal government. August 16, 2021

00:00 – Intro 


03:34 – Bernie Acre Intro

04:43 – How did your transition into this position take place?

08:18 – What makes you proud of the culture that you created around employee awareness?

12:25 – How do you get all senior management on board?

14:24 – What did it take to find the people to make such a great team?

15:35 – What were you looking for in these people

17:15 – Setting the bar 

19:15 – Team Advocate vs. Adversary 

23:59 – Was your senior management always on board with being part of the testing? 

27:06 – So the third hour of their required training is something the employees choose? 

27:54 – Have you always had the philosophy that the security training you do at work should become personal? 

29:21 – What are three things you would tell someone beginning in the field to focus on? 

32:51 – Taking the time to grow 

34:49 – What do you do to help combat burn out?  How about promoting self-care? 

37:31 – What lacks the most sometimes in an organization is communication

37:43 – Who in this industry do you respect the most? 

  • One of Bernie’s commanders in the service, for overall leadership 

43:55 – What got you so heavily into history? 

44:38 – Finding Bernie on the internet: 

47:04 – Outro 

Thanks to Bernie 






In this episode, we are joined by Michael Roderick. Michael is the CEO of Small Pond Enterprises which helps thoughtful givers become thought leaders by making their brands referable, their messaging memorable, and their ideas unforgettable. He is also the host of the podcast Access to Anyone which shows how you can get to know anyone you want in business and in life using time-tested relationship-building principles. Michael's unique methodology comes from his own experience of going from being a High School English teacher to a Broadway Producer in under two years.   August 9, 2021


00:00 – Intro 


02:08 – Intro to Michael Roderick, CEO of Small Pond Enterprises


03:20 – High school teacher – where did that come from and what were you teaching?

04:17 – You moved to New York and while teaching high school, you decided you wanted to be a            producer.  How did that come about?

09:49 -  Was all of what you are saying a plan of yours, or you just did it and it worked out?

11:45 – You were doing something for these people with no ask in return.  This makes such a psychological bond with these people.  Why would you do this?

14:41 – What framework did you create out of this experience?

19:45 – You’ve got direct and indirect approach, what are the other two?

23:07 – What methods do you use to find the detail about who you are approaching for the mutually beneficial approach?

27:19 – What’s the “E”?

35:16 – Did you come up with “DIME”?

35:55 – How can an average person use the skills you talked about to cultivate a network?

39:49 – Finding Michael on the Internet:

Social Media links (not mentioned in podcast)

40:37 – Who is your greatest mentor?

41:37 – Favorite Books

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Michael Fortune.  Michael is the Security Behaviours Team Manager for British Telecom (BT) UK. Michael has been with BT for an amazing 22 years, where he is currently BT’s expert on security behavior, insider threat behavior, and social engineering, and helps guides the business around these risks. With over 160 thousand employees across the globe in his charge, Michael helps run a team of experts who support and drive security programs for the company.  July 19, 2021

00:00 – Intro 


03:37 – Michael Fortune Intro

05:22 – Michael’s Path – how has your background in psychology helped with cyber and information security?

06:10 – Have you been able to use psychological principles in eduction?

07:27 – How do you keep education engaging for 160,000 people?

10:07 – Top down approach

12:51 – You are essentially performing an SE gig in order to get an SE gig

14:03 – What’s your rule set?

15:59 – Senior Management Buy In – people are afraid of doing that so they don’t do it.  How do you approach that?

 19:08 – Where is the ethical line in using social engineering to get buy-in?

21:21 – Explaining to upper management the repercussions of not doing this training

22:52 – Were your CISO and Director of Protections always on board or did you have to convince them? 

25:56 – What have you learned from your hundreds of thousands of SMishing attacks under your belt?

29:18 – Advice about getting buy-in from the top down can work for any sized company

 30:30 – When you talk about personalizing the sessions that you do, do you personalize to the department, or 

33:05 – Following through with a good program

36:24 – The idea is to get people to do it

36:38 – What colleagues do you respect most in the industry? 

  • Steve Benton – Deputy CISO at BT 
  • Chris Hadnagy

39:22 – What are some action steps that corporations should start doing right now?

42:00 – Experience is everything

42:40 –

Book Recommendations 

44:48 – You need patience, because human being is different and complex

45:13 – Michael Fortune on the internet:

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy is joined by Teresa Abram.  Teresa is the founder of Handwriting P.I., a full-service handwriting analysis business. Teresa is not only a handwriting analyzer, but also a professional personality investigator who can spot the red flags of a dangerous personality, identify someone’s strengths, and uncover what is holding someone back. Teresa’s interest in handwriting started when she was just 14 years old and has led her to hosting her own podcast, “A Most Unusual T Party” where she uses the letter T to unlock pieces of a person’s story...which is fascinating to listen to! July 12, 2021

00:00: Intro 


03:01: Teresa Abram Intro 

05:00: How did you get into this at 14 years old? 

07:50: How does one practice handwriting analysis? 

09:05: What is scary handwriting?  Psychopath scale. 

10:00: Chris’ handwriting 

11:20: Can you fool handwriting analysis? 

14:00: Can this be used by companies to vet potential employees? 

16:05: InfoSec and Handwriting are similar. All science is accurate until it’s not. 

18:35: Universal gestures  

21:53: Discussion about Social-Engineer COO Ryan 

24:19: Does Handwriting PI do handwriting analysis for employers?  Combined with other disciplines. 

26:31: Chris’ handwriting sample 

27:23: Banned by Hitler as witchcraft 

28:16: How long has handwriting analysis been around? 

28:51: Can you analyze in different languages?  How? 

  • Incongruency 
  • Methods 

34:06: Methodology continued.  Turning the paper over.  Go to the letter “t”. 

37:21: How long does handwriting analysis take to do? 

38:12: What is another way you work with companies? 

39:30: Wrap-up 

Teresa on the internet: 

Instagram: Handwriting_PI 


40:47: Teresa’s mentor - Sheila Lowe, President of the American Handwriting Analysis Foundation 

41:54: Favorite Books:  

44:00: How old is Teresa’s Daughter?  And how did she like having a Mom who would read her handwriting? 

46:00: Outro 

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Rockie Brockway.  Rockie is currently the Practice Lead for the Office of the CSO for TrustedSec. With over 28 years' experience in information security and business risk, Rockie specializes in Business Risk Analysis and the inherent relationships between data, assets, adversaries, and the organization’s brand value. He provides strategic and tactical advisory services to TrustedSec’s clients, assisting them in maturing their organizations’ security programs. 

00:00 – Intro 

07:25 – A little about Rockie’s background and how he got started in the industry 

10:35 – Rockie's feelings on the past 29 years, from the first virus he saw vs what we see now 

12:35 – Rockie was in a math rock band called Craw, Rockie played shows with CLUTCH!!!  

17:15 – What should I have or learn to get a job in a company like yours? 

21:52 – How do you take curious and knowledgeable people’s knowledge and bridge that gap between them and the decision makers? 

23:43 – How can young people get the qualities you suggest? 

25:20 – Never be afraid of failure 

27:45 – How important is top-down leadership support, or what are the most important aspects of doing your job? 

31:25 – Are there more or less “future thinking” proactive security concerns than there were years ago? 

36:02 – What level of organizations are bringing you in for your assistance? 

37:28 – Action steps for corporations to start doing now 


40:42 – Colleagues you respect most in the industry 

  • Dr Peter Tippett 
  • Marty from Snort 
  • Renaud from Nessus 
  • Dave Kennedy and TrustedSec GitHub 
  • Jack Jones - Factory Analysis Information Risk 
  • B Sides Jack Daniel, Nickerson, Ian Emit 

42:45 – Book recommendations 


44:33 – How to contact Rockie 


In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by one of our greatest friends and mentors, Joe Navarro.  After serving as an FBI agent for 25 years, Joe has become a nonverbal and behavioral expert. Since retiring, he has authored 14 books in 29 languages dealing with human behavior and body language. His book “What Every BODY Is Saying” remains the #1 selling body-language book in the world for over 12 years.  Joe’s new book “Be Exceptional” brings 40 years of his observations and research into one book. 

 00:00 – Intro 


 June 24th: Chris at Living Security 2nd annual Breaking Security Awareness (digital conference for 2021) 

 03:54 – Joe Navarro Intro 

05:40 – Discussion on Joe’s newest book, “Be Exceptional”.  Why a book about being exceptional? 

08:41 – Is the writing style in the new book purposely like the others, where you compiled people’s behavior?  Did you start writing with this idea, or did the book come about after you had cataloged it all? 

13:16 – What is the difference between excellence and perfection? 

15:13 – “Whoever provides the most psychological comfort is going to be the soonest winner” 

16:23 – Excellence is about experience and the journey 

18:34 – How does someone get to the place where they have mastery over their emotions? 

22:50 – How do you get people to have self-awareness and humility? 

24:05 – Self-Mastery 

26:12 – What is the ranking of success, if it’s not “counting possessions”? 

28:15 – How much of excellence is habit?  Is any of excellence based on genetics? 

 29:18 – Thoughts on Usain Bolt and other runners achieving excellence 

32:44 – Thoughts on Benjamin Franklin achieving excellence 

39:42 – “Be Exceptional” comes out June 29, a bit of discussion about book release 

41:02 – Wrap Up 

How to contact Joe:  

Joe Navarro on Twitter: @NavarroTells 

42:01 – Favorite Books 

The Power of Myth – Joseph Campbell 

44:22 – Joe’s Mentors 

Mom, Dad, Grandma  

Jack Schafer  

David Givens  

Gerald Post – CIA 

47:12 – Outro – newly redesigned 

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Jason Frank.  Jason has an extensive background in helping both government and Fortune 100 organizations, and has served a course instructor for the Black Hat security conference. Jason is now currently the COO at SpecterOps, where he is accountable for execution of the company. He oversees the Adversary Simulation and Detection delivery capabilities, where he helps clients to understand, detect, and respond to adversaries. May 17, 2021


00:00 – Intro 


03:05 – Podcast Guest Jason Frank Intro 

 03:22 – Jason at BlackHat 

03:30 - SpecterOps 

04:34 – How Jason got to where he is 

08:50 – Curiousity and motivation born from failing at a CTF 

09:50 – Adversary Simulation – why is Jason using this phrase? 

12:32 – Where are we in the current security culture? 

16:11 – How to get attention of stakeholders, what concepts do you put in play? 

18:03 – Reactive vs. Proactive 

21:56 – How can corporations prepare for and mitigate attacks? 

23:39 – What are the business repercussions of not letting machines talk to each other, and only the server? 

25:45 – What are the more recent attacks you’ve seen coming up that people should be looking for? 

28:14 – Knowledge bombs – terminology that people can look up to recognize “low hanging fruit” they may be missing – Bloodhound 

30:00 – Cycles where certain things can be exploited such as ActiveDirectory 

30:50 – What other things do companies need to be watching for 

32:14  – PowerShell 

33:44 – What are some action steps that corporations should start taking right now? 

34:51 – Colleagues Jason respects most in the industry 

  • Andrew Morris founder of GreyNoise 
  • Dane Stuckey from Palantir 
  • Jason Hill from DHS CISA 
  • Bryan Beyer and Keith McCammon from Red Canary 

36:50 – Jason's Book Recommendations 

38:31 – Wrap-Up 

@joemontmania on Twitter (Ryan MacDougall) 

@HumanHacker on Twitter (Chris Hadnagy) 

@InnocentOrg on Twitter (Innocent Lives Foundation) 

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by industry professional Jack Schafer, PhD.  Dr. Schafer is a psychologist, professor, intelligence consultant, and former FBI Special Agent. DrSchafer spent fifteen years conducting counter-intelligence and counterterrorism investigations, and seven years as a behavioral analyst for the FBI's National Security Division's Behavioral Analysis Program.  May 10, 2021  


00:00 - Intro 


03:32 - Introduction to Dr. Jack Schafer, PhD. 

04:54 - How Jack decided to start training people in his field after retirement 

07:46 - Why is rapport building important? 

11:49 - How do you stop rapport from being used against you? 

13:51 - Explaining “The Truth Bias” 

15:37 - Rapport works across different cultures 

18:15 - The basic human need to correct other people 

19:28 - Integrating the knowledge of that need into work as an FBI agent - “Brian’s Loop” 

23:01 - People don’t answer yes or no, they answer Yes+, No+, I Don’t Know+ 

23:19 - Flattery 

25:13 - Roundabout vs Direct Approach 

26:45 - The “right” way is the way that works for you 

29:58 - The Truth “Default Mode” and breaking the baseline 

33:05 - Verbal vs. Non-Verbal Cues 

36:19 - Get A Commitment 

37:36 - Why does getting a commitment work on humans? 

39:50 - The Lip Purse 

42:40 - Wrap Up 


44:45 - Jack’s Mentors 

46:30 - Contact Jack 

47:06 - Outro 



Direct download: Human_Element_Series_Podcast_-_145_Jack_Schafer_FINAL.mp3
Category:Human Element Series -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this episode of the SECurity Awareness Series of the SEPodcastChris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Ashley Rose, the CEO of Living Security. Listen in as they discuss the best methods to teach cybersecurity awareness, as well as the unique advantages when using escape rooms to do so.  April 19, 2021


00:00 – Introduction 


03:12 – Introduction to Ashley Rose 

04:31 – Ashley’s path into cybersecurity awareness 

10:59 – Developing an escape room that teaches cybersecurity 

15:02 – How Living Security adapted to the pandemic 

22:16 – How Ashley gets the attention of potential clients 

26:00 – Why adaptive problem solving is a vital skill 

28:49 – How this training is increasing security awareness 

30:47 – The industry’s unhealthy focus on compliance 

34:41 – The science that went into developing the training 

36:49 – How training can be individualized to increase effectiveness 

41:42 – Ashley's contact info 

42:28 – Ashley's most respected colleagues 

44:40 – Ashley’s action steps that corporations should start doing right now 

49:06 – Ashley's book reccomendations 

50:13 – Outro 


Direct download: Ep._144_-_Adaptive_Problem_Solving_with_Ashley_Rose.mp3
Category:Human Element Series -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this episode of the Social-Engineer podcast, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by Dr. Ida Ngambeki, an Assistant Professor of Computer and Information Technology at Purdue University. Listen in as they discuss importance of empathy and the best ways to teach social engineering April 12, 2021

00:00 – Intro 


03:25 – Introduction to Dr. Ida Ngambeki 

04:20 – How Ida got into social engineering 

08:45 – Teaching the next generation of social engineers 

11:30 – Teaching the distinct aspects of social engineering 

17:05 – The difference between a pentester and a malicious actor 

19:01 – The importance of bias and assumptions 

20:36 – Ida’s unconventional path to social engineering expertise 

24:42 – The importance of empathy in security education 

27:50 – The three aspects of empathy 

30:04 – Diversity in the information security industry 

34:22 – Chris getting held at gunpoint 

39:50 – The problem with fear-based pretexts 

42:32 - Ida’s industry mentors 

Donna Riley   

Demitra Evangelou   

Melisa Dark   

Alejandrah Magana  

William Gratiano   

Mark Rogers 

45:14 – Ida's book recommendations 

47:59 – Ida's contact info 

49:23 – Maxie's book 

51:02 - Outro 

Direct download: NEW_Ep._143-_Empathetic_Hugs_with_Ida_Ngambeki.mp3
Category:Human Element Series -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this episode of the SECurity Awareness Series of the SEPodcastChris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Brian Phillips who is responsible for information security at Macy’s. Listen as they discuss how to: build an information security organizationhire the right people, and get buy-in from executives.  March 15, 2021


00:09 – Intro 

01:54 – Introduction to Brian Phillips 

02:44 – Security in a retail environment and impacts from the pandemic 

07:25 - How to build an information security organization from the ground up 

10:14 – Changing an organization's mindset for better security 

14:20 – The most desirable quality in a team member, and how to recognize it ian interview 

18:21 – How to nurture an outsider into a security professional 

22:48 - How to align corporate security initiatives with business goals 

26:38 – The importance of buy-in from the C-level down, and how to get it. 

38:13 – Key takeaways that corporations should start doing now 

40:17 – Brian’s most respected colleagues 

42:14 – Brian's book recommendations 

Joe Navarro’s Books: 




44:03 – Conclusion 


In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by ex-FBI Spy Catcher and now world renowned Trust and Rapport expert, Robin Dreeke. Listen in as they discuss the importance of mentoring, TRUST and relationship building. - March 8, 2021

00:09 – Intro 

01:43 – Introduction to Robin Dreeke 

03:35 – The importance of mentoring 

09:37 – The levels of mentoring 

11:05 – How to find a mentor 

14:18 – How to choose a mentee 

18:49 – Building genuine relationships and partnerships 

21:11 – Teaching transparency 

23:29 – Bringing value to a relationship and exercising transparency 

25:45 – Try to understand the reasons behind a person’s actions 

33:13 – Figurout what kind of feedback a person needs 

36:20 – Making empathy a habit 

38:01 – When emotionally hijacked, utilize tactical empathy 

41:17 – Is it better to confront or adapt to miscommunication? 

47:08 – Robin's current projects and info 

51:51 – Robin's most respected colleagues 

52:55 – Robin's book recommendations 

56:17 - Outro 


Direct download: Ep._141_-_Do_You_Want_to_be_Mentored_with_Robin_Dreeke.mp3
Category:Human Element Series -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by industry professionalJulie Rinehart. Julie has spent the last 10 years building and enhancing Fortune 500 enterprise Security Awareness programs. Listen as they discuss using empathy to improve security awareness and the flaws in the “stupid user” philosophy. 


00:10 – Intro 

01:56 – Introduction to Julie Rinehart 

02:28 – How Julie got into the industry 

06:21 – Dismantling the “stupid user” philosophy 

07:53 – How to interview your employer 

10:34 – The biggest milestones in Julie’s career 

14:31 – How you can encourage users to report the phish they clicked on 

19:22– What we can learn from “people who try to do the right thing and then mess up” 

25:25 – The benefits of making security personal 

28:34 – Julie's biggest challenges in the industry 

30:28 – Increase security awareness using gamification 

35:13 – Julie's mentors and most respected colleagues 

38:54 - Julie’s podcast recommendations 

43:52 – Outro 



Direct download: Ep._140__Empathetic_Security_with_Julie_Rinehart.mp3
Category:Security Awareness -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by writer, speaker, business owner, and hype artist, Michael F. Schein. Michael shares the social engineering tactics he was able to learn from cult leaders and mischief makersFind out how these often-manipulative tactics can be used for good.  - Feb 8, 2021

00:09 – Introduction 

01:44 – Introduction to Michael F. Schein 

02:30 – How Michael figured out that we can learn from cult leaders and mischief makers 

10:38 - Influence through disruption 

11:44 – Make war not love 

13:21 – Basecamp: Simplicity by hating complexity 

16:21 – Building hype requires confidence 

18:15 – Focus on what you want to be known for 

26:06 – Create a secret society 

30:27 – How Michael socially engineered himself onto the podcast 

35:34 – The positive side of hype 

37:43 – Chris, Maxie and Michael's favorite music 

43:03 – Michael's most respected colleagueMichael Roderick 

44:21 – Michael's book recommendations: 


47:10 – Michael's contact info 


48:39 – Outro 



In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by industry professional, Marcus Sailler to discuss his experience as the red team information security manager at Capital Group. Marcus shares some great tips on creating a successful security team and how you can prevent it from becoming the "No Police". They also go over the recent changes in the industry, including how big hacks have increased security awareness in the general public. 


00:09 – Introduction to the new Security Awareness Series 

01:28 – Introduction to Ryan MacDougall 

02:32 – Introduction to Marcus Sailler 

04:20 – How Marcus got into information security 

06:08 – Recent changes in the infosec industryHow a big hack increases security awareness 

12:09 – How a red team and security awareness team can collaborate to enhance security 

14:25 – Introduction to Capital Group 

16:17 – Coming up with relevant attacks for a global company 

18:08 – How a security team can avoid becoming the “No Police” 

21:39 – Why it’s better to build a blue team first 

22:24 – The importance of attitude and ego for a red teamer 

25:04 – How a red team benefits from partnership 

26:53 – Emulate the bad guy, but remember to be good 

29:18 – Steps corporations should implement now 

30:58 – Some of Marcus’ most respected industry professionals 

34:47 – Marcus' book recommendations 

39:18 – Marcus' contact info 

14:38 – Outro 



Direct download: Ep._138__Security_With_Marcus_Sailer_of_Capital_Group.mp3
Category:Security Awareness -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In this special episode, Chris Hadnagy joins Maxie Reynolds to talk about the amazing stories and useful lessons contained in Chris’s new book: Human Hacking: Win Friends, Influence People, and Leave Them Better Off for Having Met You”. Listen as Chris delves into the process of making “Human Hacking” and shares the awesome story behind its inceptionMaxie and Chris also discuss the importance of empathy especially when it comes to hacking humans.  

Chris a global security expert and master hacker. He is the founder and CEO of Social-Engineer, LLC, the creator of the popular Social Engineer Podcast, website, and newsletter, and designed “Advanced Practical Social Engineering,” the first hands-on social engineering training course and certification for law enforcement, military, and private sector professionals.  


00:09 – Introduction to Maxie Reynolds  

02:51 – Human-hacking is a skill that can be used in everyday life by everyday people 

04:19 – What it means to “Leave Them Better Off for Having Met You” 

05:50 – The martial art of the mind and how a malicious person could use it for harm 

07:39 – Empathy and why it is so important when hacking humans 

09:21 – Showing empathy while amygdala hijacked 

11:40 – Empathy is more than just putting yourself in someone else’s shoes 

14:15 – Empathy is often hierarchical 

16:33 – The power of “I’m sorry” 

18:02 – Why understanding the meaning behind someone’s actions is so important 

21:48 – Accuracy of the stories told in the book 

24:15 – The process of co-authoring the book with Seth Schulman 

26:43 – The amazing story of how the book came to be 

31:16 – How to fight the isolation and social awkwardness brought by technology and, more recently, COVID-19. 

34:46 – Giving your feedback on the book 

36:20 – A distillation of the “Advanced Practical Social Engineering” course, made applicable to everyone 

40:50 – Socially engineering the world’s best rock band 

43:51 - “Quick Fire Questions”: 

44:04 – Chris's favorite story in the book 

45:04 – Is there a stage in child development where less empathy is shown? 

46:10 – Would the new book have helped teenage Chris? 

48:01 – Is it as nicer to feel empathy yourself or receive it from someone else? 

49:49 – Balance is required when teaching empathy. 

51:19 – How we can all better our communities by learning to “Win Friends, Influence People, and Leave Them Better Off for Having Met You” 

53:35 – Chris's book recommendations 

54:56 – Outro 



Direct download: Ep._137__Human_Hacking_With_Chris_Hadnagy.mp3
Category:Human Element Series -- posted at: 1:00am EST

In episode 136, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by doctor, researcher and microbloggerOsama (Sam) Qurashi. Sam was in the medical field for 15 years until he decided to travel the world and learn about unorthodox forms of psychology from experts in widely varied fields. Find out what Sam learned from these “masters of the mind” and understand how you can apply these lessons in your daily life.   


00:32 – Introduction to Dr. Osama (Sam) Qurashi

02:20 – Upcoming events and book release 

04:09 – How Sam went from psychiatric resident to academic globetrotter in search of masters of the mind 

09:30 – What Sam learned from The Joke Doctor 

11:30 – What Sam learned from The Tea Master 

16:00 – Mistakes - The two schools of thought 

18:09 – How monkeys and coconuts can help us understand acceptance 

20:00 – Linguistic psychology and how emotions are conveyed in Japanese 

23:32 – How you can form habits by staying small 

25:57 – What The Iceman and The Horse Whisperer can teach us about resistance and force 

29:11 – Sam's plan for sharing the knowledge he has acquired 

31:59 – What Sam learned from The Pickpocket 

36:59 – Why many people fail when trying something new 

38:11 – In order to learn something new, you must be able to accept temporary incompetence 

39:17 – Avoiding failure is the same as avoiding success 

41:39 – How you can improve your self-image by changing your peers 

 44:19 – What Sam learned from the samurai 

46:08 – Sam's book recommendations 

48:43 – Sam's contact info 

50:12 – Conclusion 


51:57 – Big podcast announcement!

Lisa Forte on Twitter: "Director: okay great Lisa but next time make a slightly prettier face at the camera Me: ** takes direction poorly… " In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by social engineering and insider threats expert: Lisa Forte. Learn how Lisa went from fighting terrorists and real-life sea pirates to being an expert on cybercrime and social engineering. Discover how scammers are taking advantage of global uncertainty and understand how to protect yourself from attack.   

00:00 – Introduction to Lisa Forte 

02:38 – Lisa's path to a career in social engineering 

05:27 – The psychology that terrorists use to recruit teenagers 

07:52 – Lisa's experience with fighting cyber crime 

08:43 – Why Lisa named her cyber security company Red Goat 

10:23 – The world pandemic made hospitals and their supply chains vulnerable to attack 

14:38 – Keep secure by realizing the value of the information you possess  

15:41 - How Cyber Volunteers 19 is helping to save lives by making hospitals secure.