The Social-Engineer Podcast

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Dec 26, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:29 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

01:18 – Intro Links 

05:04 – Todays Topic: Dumpster Diving 

06:27 – Shelby Dacko Intro 

08:38 – Patrick’s Pizza Adventure 

14:34 – Who is Shelby? 

15:51 – 9 Times 

19:20 – The continuing importance of OSINT 

20:44 – What are some "typical" goals for a "break-in"? 

22:40 – Concerns with 3rd party security 

23:08 – Shelby's nighttime find 

26:37 – Shelby's Trash Talk 

31:02 – All the luck 

33:20 – A moment in time 

35:37 – Situational Awareness 

38:58 – The 4th Step 

41:02 – Diversity of thought 

42:06 – Cut me some SLACK 

44:39 – "It's more about the raccoons" 

46:50 – Wrap Up & Outro 


Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 

Today our guest is Steve Orrin. Steve is a respected IT executive with over 30 years of experience in cybersecurity, solution architecture, virtualization security, and federal project management. Orrin earned a Bachelor's in Honors Research Biology from Kean University. He currently serves as a Federal Chief Technology Officer and Senior PE for Intel Corporation. He is also a key advisor and subject matter expert in the emerging technologies space, providing guidance to the Public Sector, Defense, and Intelligence communities. [Dec 19, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:55 – Intro Links: 

03:43 – Steve Orrin Intro 

04:26 – How did a biologist become a CTO at Intel? 

09:10 – The evolution of security attacks 

12:22 – Humans are humans 

13:18 – Higher-risk targets 

13:54 – If I knew then...LISTEN! 

15:09 – Speak the language 

16:27 – Making limoncello out of lemons 

17:36 – Check your ego 

19:04 – The prerequisites 

21:06 – A Self-fulfilling Prophecy of Awesome Things 

22:15 – Perfection is the Enemy of Good 

26:06 – Handling failure 

28:12 – Culturing opportunities 

30:37 – Ninja skills 

32:07 – Have you had mentors in your career? 

33:42 – Book Recommendations  

35:52 – Find Steve Orrin online 

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50. She was honored as the #1 Communication Coach by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards and one of the Top 5 Communication Professionals in the World by Global Gurus.  


She is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Long Game, Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine. 


A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, Clark has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and consults and speaks for clients such as Google, Yale University, and the World Bank. 


She is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, a producer of a multiple Grammy-winning jazz album, and a Broadway investor. [Dec 12, 2022]  


00:00 – Intro  

00:18 – Intro Links 

02:37 – Dorie Clark Intro 

04:01 – How did you decide to become a leadership expert? 

05:26 – Defeating the "gatekeepers" 

08:06 – The benefits of Social Proof 

12:34 – Has the "long game" changed in the last 10 years? 

15:36 – The rise of FOMO 

18:19 – Getting back to long-term thinking 

19:52 – You don't have to "Take the Leap!" 

25:32 – Be 2 years older with straight teeth 

27:42 – Confusing "busy" with "important" 

31:40 – Deciding what to be bad at 

36:16 – Who do you consider your mentor? 

40:28 – Find Dorie Clark online 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are discussing: Natural born killers, or monsters in the making? 

We are all curious about the origins of evil and violence. We see a story on the news and ask ourselves, how could anyone do that? So, let’s dive into how. We are not going to cover specific cases and talk about specific serial killers, because you lose the science and we “celebritize” serial killers.  [Dec 05, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:19 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

00:52 – Intro Links 

03:37 – The topic of the day: Natural born killers, or monsters in the making? 

04:48 – Born this way? 

08:25 – The "X" Factor 

10:11 – Self-soothing 

13:18 – The importance of Anxiety 

14:34 – Made by the military 

15:23 – You can't pick and choose 

18:18 – Gag reflex 

19:50 – Who's to blame? 

20:59 – The "Criminal Gene" fallacy 

24:39 – A happy ending 

26:50 – “This isn't set in stone” 

29:31 – Silver Linings 

31:13 – “It's a bit of both” 

32:02 – Misguided markers 

35:42 – Is there prevention? 

39:05 – Minority Report 

41:18 – An unsupportive system 

42:34 – Touch is vital! 

45:26 – An interesting (NOT FUN!) quote 

46:27 – Wrap Up 

47:07 – The request lines are open! 

47:35 – Outro 



Entail, W. D. A. S. K. (2021). Are Serial Killers Born or Made?. 


Johnson, B. R., & Becker, J. V. (1997). Natural born killers?: The development of the sexually sadistic serial killer. Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Online, 25(3), 335-348. 


Ioana, I. M. (2013). No one is born a serial killer!. Procedia-Social and Behavioral Sciences, 81, 324-328. 


Mitchell, H., & Aamodt, M. G. (2005). The incidence of child abuse in serial killers. Journal of Police and Criminal Psychology, 20(1), 40-47. 


Miller, L. (2014). Serial killers: I. Subtypes, patterns, and motives. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 19(1), 1-11. 


Wiest, J. B. (2016). Casting cultural monsters: Representations of serial killers in US and UK news media. Howard Journal of Communications, 27(4), 327-346. 


Wrangham, R. W., Wilson, M. L., & Muller, M. N. (2006). Comparative rates of violence in chimpanzees and humans. Primates, 47(1), 14-26. 


Newton-Fisher, N. E., & Thompson, M. E. (2012). Comparative evolutionary perspectives on violence. 


Marono, A. J., Reid, S., Yaksic, E., & Keatley, D. A. (2020). A behaviour sequence analysis of serial killers’ lives: From childhood abuse to methods of murder. Psychiatry, psychology and law, 27(1), 126-137. 


Marono, A., & Keatley, D. A. (2022). An investigation into the association between cannibalism and serial killers. Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, 1-12. 


Entail, W. D. A. S. K. (2021). Are Serial Killers Born or Made?. 


Njelesani, J., Hashemi, G., Cameron, C., Cameron, D., Richard, D., & Parnes, P. (2018). From the day they are born: a qualitative study exploring violence against children with disabilities in West Africa. BMC public health, 18(1), 1-7. 


Boyle, K. (2001). What's natural about killing? Gender, copycat violence and Natural Born Killers. Journal of Gender Studies, 10(3), 311-321. 


Formosa, P. (2008). The problems with evil. Contemporary Political Theory, 7(4), 395-415. 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Nov 28, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:24 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

00:43 – Intro Links 

03:26 – Todays Topic: How do you become a Social Engineer? 

05:16 – The Art of the Conversation  

05:36 – The old college try! 

07:49 – It's all in the report 

11:37 – OSINT: The SE Lifeblood 

13:53 – How do you learn this? 

16:48 – Don't rely on tools, rely on OSINT 

19:14 – The APSE origin story  

25:13 – It's really about communication  

25:45 – Learning from DISC 

29:24 – It's not all bad 

30:24 – This isn't 9 to 5 

33:50 – Conversation with a purpose 

34:57 – Back to the reports 

38:27 – APSE and beyond 

43:36 – Sorry...Invite Only 

45:50 – 'Tis the season 

46:41 – Never stop learning 

48:27 – Always different, never boring  

49:32 – The next generation  

51:28 – Coming up next month 

52:03 – Wrap Up & Outro 


Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 


Marc Ashworth is a respected IT executive with over 30 years of experience in cyber and physical security, IT/security architecture, project management, is an author and a public speaker.  He is a board member of the St. Louis Chapter of InfraGard, Webster University Cyber Advisory board, Co-Founded the State of Cyber annual security conference, and a Lifetime member of FBI Citizens Academy, possessing security certifications in CISSP, CISM, CRISC, Security+ and other certifications.  As the Senior Vice President and Chief Information Security Officer at First Bank, Marc currently oversees First Bank’s information security, fraud, physical security, and the network services departments. He is also the 2022 Cyber Defense Magazine winner of “Top 100 CISOs in the World.” [Nov 21st, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:49 – Intro Links: 

03:15 – Marc Ashworth Intro 

05:17 – What was the path that led you to InfoSec? 

07:41 – Cultivating good security practices 

09:31 – Learning to "scale" your security 

11:22 – The value of Strategic Thinking 

13:40 – It's all in the presentation 

15:25 – The importance of Customer Service 

18:32 – The Art of Translation 

21:32 – Small Wins 

24:34 – Letters to a young CISO 

26:20 – Don't avoid Pen Testing! 

28:11 – Adopting a "Partnership" mindset 

30:30 – Long line of influence 

33:40 – Book Recommendations 

36:14 – Find Marc Ashworth online 

38:36 – Wrap Up  

38:56 – Outro 


Today we are joined by Stephanie Paul. Stephanie is an actress, a trainer, and keynote speaker. She has over 30 years of experience in the entertainment industry and she uses that now as she coaches and trains executives, sales teams, Tedx speakers and experts of all kinds to become master communicators. She is also a proud member of EOA and on the board of the directors of the Alzheimer’s Association in Orange County. She is an active member of WIB, and the Vice Chair of Young Women in Bio. 

[Nov 14th, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro  

00:23 – Intro Links 

02:10 – Stephanie Paul Intro 

02:59 – How did you go from acting to coaching communications? 

06:34 – Dark Side of the Moon 

08:03 – The Magic of Story 

09:14 – Can anyone learn to use storytelling? 

11:43 – Practice, practice, practice! 

13:49 – How is storytelling used in Leadership? 

16:31 – Reflecting your values 

18:15 – The beauty of mistakes 

21:32 – You're not born with it! 

23:28 – Mentorship 

28:32 – The importance of Accountability 

30:10 – Make them want the banana 

33:24 – Valley Girl 

35:39 – Find Stephanie Paul online 

36:50 – Women In Leadership 

37:49 – Book Recommendations: 

40:55 Who are your greatest mentors? 

44:42 – Guest Wrap Up 

45:17 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are not just going to talk about nonverbal communication at an observational level, but lay the ground work for a deeper understanding of nonverbals. Not just what certain behaviors tell us but WHY they tell us this, and where nonverbal communication originated from! [Nov 07, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

01:10 – Intro Links 

04:01 – The topic of the day: Nonverbal Communication 

10:25 – Everything comes back to Darwin 

15:25 – In Utero 

18:54 – A picture speaks 1000 words 

20:31 – More "nature" than "nurture" 

23:20 – Cultural vs Universal Gestures 

27:17 – Looking at "Intention" 

32:24 – Linking Non-verbals to Intention 

36:32 – The Doctor is REALLY in! 

38:37 – Don't Look Up (or away!) 

42:35 – Response Behavior 

46:58 – Neuroception - Trust your gut! 

53:48 – The Takeaway 

56:04 – Man's Best Friend 

57:13 – Wrap Up  

58:53 – Book Recommendations 


Select research: 

Allen, S. (2018). The science of awe (pp. 58-69). Greater Good Science: John Templeton Foundation. 

Bargh J, Chartrand T (1999) The unbearable automaticity of being. Am Psychol 54: 462–479. 

Bousmalis, K., Mehu, M., & Pantic, M. (2013). Towards the automatic detection of spontaneous agreement and disagreement based on nonverbal behaviour: A survey of related cues, databases, and tools. Image and vision computing, 31(2), 203-221. 

Bryant, G. A. (2020). Evolution, structure, and functions of human laughter. In The handbook of communication science and biology (pp. 63-77). Routledge. 

Chakrabarty, S., Widing, R. E., & Brown, G. (2014). Selling behaviours and sales performance: the moderating and mediating effects of interpersonal mentalizing. Journal of Personal Selling & Sales Management, 34(2), 112-122. 

Chen M, Bargh JA (1999) Consequences of automatic evaluation: Immediate behavioral predispositions to approach or avoid the stimulus. Pers Soc Psychol B 25: 215–224. 

Demuru, E., & Giacoma, C. (2022). Interacting primates: the biological roots of human communication. Ethology Ecology & Evolution, 34(3), 201-204. 

Ekman, P. (1971). Universals and cultural differences in facial expressions of emotion. In Nebraska symposium on motivation. University of Nebraska Press. 

Ekman, P., & Keltner, D. (1973). Universal facial expressions of emotion. Studia Psychologica, 15(2), 140-147. 

Gordon, R. A., & Druckman, D. (2018). Nonverbal behaviour as communication: Approaches, issues, and research. In The handbook of communication skills (pp. 81-134). Routledge. 

Heuer, K., Rinck, M., & Becker, E. S. (2007). Avoidance of emotional facial expressions in social anxiety: The approach–avoidance task. Behaviour research and therapy, 45(12), 2990-3001. 

Mathis, V., & Kenny, P. J. (2018). Neuroscience: brain mechanisms of blushing. Current Biology, 28(14), R791-R792. 

Müller, P., Huang, M. X., & Bulling, A. (2018, March). Detecting low rapport during natural interactions in small groups from non-verbal behaviour. In 23rd International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces (pp. 153-164). 

Neidlinger, K., Truong, K. P., Telfair, C., Feijs, L., Dertien, E., & Evers, V. (2017, March). AWElectric: that gave me goosebumps, did you feel it too?. In Proceedings of the Eleventh International Conference on Tangible, Embedded, and Embodied Interaction (pp. 315-324). 

Parr, L. A., Micheletta, J., & Waller, B. M. (2016). Nonverbal communication in primates: Observational and experimental approaches. 

Pohjavaara, P., Telaranta, T., & Väisänen, E. (2003). The role of the sympathetic nervous system in anxiety: is it possible to relieve anxiety with endoscopic sympathetic block?. Nordic journal of psychiatry, 57(1), 55-60. 

Reissland, N., & Austen, J. (2018). Goal directed behaviours: the development of pre-natal touch behaviours. In Reach-to-Grasp Behavior (pp. 3-17). Routledge. 

Schug, J., Matsumoto, D., Horita, Y., Yamagishi, T., & Bonnet, K. (2010). Emotional expressivity as a signal of cooperation. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(2), 87-94. 

Segerstråle, U., & Molnár, P. (2018). Nonverbal communication: where nature meets culture. Routledge. 

Waterson, R. H., Lander, E. S., & Wilson, R. K. (2005). Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome. Nature, 437(7055), 69. 

White, P. (2016). Reading the Blush. Configurations, 24(3), 281-301. 

Woud, M. L., Maas, J., Becker, E. S., & Rinck, M. (2013). Make the manikin move: Symbolic approach–avoidance responses affect implicit and explicit face evaluations. Journal of Cognitive Psychology, 25(6), 738-744. 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Oct 24th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

00:58 – Intro Links 

03:28 – This month’s dumpster dive: Great Stories 

04:01 – Oceans 11 1/2: Ryan Didn't Die 

05:14 – Let the testing begin! 

06:36 – OSINT & Building a Pretext 

10:06 – Never lose focus of your SCOPE 

11:52 – Stay with the Pretext! 

14:53 – Don't Drink & Shred 

18:36 – Always working 

19:55 – The Story Continues... 

29:14 – You can't prepare for Bad Luck 

35:04 – Being an advocate, not an adversary 

36:46 – Not quite a clean getaway 

38:40 – The value of stories 

40:34 – Coming up next month 

41:43 – Wrap Up & Outro 



Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 


Direct download: Ep._184_-_SE_Etc_Series_-_Ryan_Didnt_Die_with_Patrick_and_Chris.mp3
Category:SE Etc. -- posted at: 7:55am EDT

Today our guest joining us is Kevin Gowen. Kevin serves as Chief Information Security Officer for Synovus and is responsible for information and cyber security, physical security, business continuity, fraud, and financial crimes. He was named Chief Information Security Officer in 2015. Gowen earned Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Mechanical Engineering from the Georgia Institute of Technology. He was a recipient of the James H. Blanchard Leadership award and was named Tech Exec Networks’ Information Security Executive of the Year in May 2022. Gowen is an alumnus of Leadership Columbus and serves as a board member of the National Technology Security Coalition along with serving on multiple advisory boards and in industry group leadership roles. [Oct 17th, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links: 

03:55 – Kevin Gowen Intro 

05:55 – What made you want to go into InfoSec? 

06:56 – Managing Risk with teams of 10,000+ 

08:24 – How do you stay in front of the next attack? 

10:15 – Top 3 Talking Points to assure the stakeholders 

11:27 – How do you educate the customer? 

13:04 – The "push" during Cybersecurity Awareness Month 

14:23 – That's not Amazon! 

15:55 – How are you attracting and retaining talent during this employee drought? 

20:23 – Poaching vs Developing 

22:46 – Communicating the need for diversity down the ladder 

24:25 – Cross-industry and Inter-department hiring 

26:24 – If I knew then... 

28:41 – Defining our "true" critical assets 

30:03 – Be willing to be evaluated 

32:32 – Who helped get you to where you are today? 

34:47 – Find Kevin Gowen online 

39:28 – Wrap Up  

40:13 – Outro 

Today we are joined by David Hill. David is currently a licensed real estate broker in Massachusetts and is also a Success Certified Business Coach and Cardone University Sales Trainer. Davis has been a top producing real estate agent for over 18 years as well as a phone sales trainer with over 36 years’ sales experience in multiple industries. David is also the host of the Path to Mastery podcast and the author of two books, “The Sales Playbook” and “Getting your Quality of Life back”. David also enjoys traveling, spending time with his 3 daughters and his wife, and enjoys exercise as a triathlete who has competed in an Ironman Race. [Oct 10th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

00:20 – Intro Links 

01:41 – David Hill Intro 

02:41 – How did you get started in sales? 

03:51 – The way sales have changed over the decades  

07:15 – Improving your quality of life 

09:45 – Setting Standards 

11:48 – Getting over the fear of setting boundaries 

16:38 – The Power of Resilience 

19:37 – Developing your own Grit 

23:14 – Steps to finding your passion 

28:48 – Strategic Thought Time 

31:28 Who are your greatest mentors? 

33:42 – Book Recommendations: 

36:36 – Find David Hill online 

37:26 – Guest Wrap Up 

37:54 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


This is Episode 181 and hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. 


Joining Chris is co-host Dr. Abbie Maroño. Abbie is Director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, and a perception management coach. She has a PhD in Behaviour analysis and specializes in nonverbal communication, trust, and cooperation. 


Today’s conversation will be on the topic of Can You Fake It Till You Make It. [Oct 03, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:21 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

01:16 – Intro Links 

03:45 – The topic of the day: Can you fake it till you make it? 

05:15 – The Power of the Mind 

06:53 – The Placebo Milkshake 

12:07 – The difference with disorders 

14:09 – “I'm gonna be happy!” 

15:55 – Facial Feedback Hypothesis 

21:00 – The power of expression 

22:18 – Botox for happiness? 

30:27 – Power Posing 

37:39 – V is for Victory! 

39:07 – The basis of non-verbals 

41:34 – Self Talk 

44:34 – All or Nothing 

47:37 – Public Speaking or Firing Squad? 

49:34 – Book Recommendations 

50:26 – Wrap Up  

50:58 – Find us online 

51:48 – Outro 


Select research: 


Carney, D. R., Cuddy, A. J., & Yap, A. J. (2010). Power posing: Brief nonverbal displays affect neuroendocrine levels and risk tolerance. Psychological science, 21(10), 1363-1368. 


Coles, N. A., Larsen, J. T., & Lench, H. C. (2019). A meta-analysis of the facial feedback literature: Effects of facial feedback on emotional experience are small and variable. Psychological bulletin, 145(6), 610. 


Crum, A. J., Corbin, W. R., Brownell, K. D., & Salovey, P. (2011). Mind over milkshakes: mindsets, not just nutrients, determine ghrelin response. Health Psychology, 30(4), 424. 


Fischer, J., Fischer, P., Englich, B., Aydin, N., & Frey, D. (2011). Empower my decisions: The effects of power gestures on confirmatory information processing. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 47(6), 1146-1154. 


Garrison, K. E., Tang, D., & Schmeichel, B. J. (2016). Embodying power: A preregistered replication and extension of the power pose effect. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 7(7), 623-630. 


Gronau, Q. F., Van Erp, S., Heck, D. W., Cesario, J., Jonas, K. J., & Wagenmakers, E. J. (2017). A Bayesian model-averaged meta-analysis of the power pose effect with informed and default priors: The case of felt power. Comprehensive Results in Social Psychology, 2(1), 123-138. 


Hardy, J., Gammage, K., & Hall, C. (2001). A descriptive study of athlete self-talk. The sport psychologist, 15(3), 306-318. 


Kross, E., Bruehlman-Senecal, E., Park, J., Burson, A., Dougherty, A., Shablack, H., ... & Ayduk, O. (2014). Self-talk as a regulatory mechanism: how you do it matters. Journal of personality and social psychology, 106(2), 304. 


McIntosh, D. N. (1996). Facial feedback hypotheses: Evidence, implications, and directions. Motivation and emotion, 20(2), 121-147. 


Neal, D. T., & Chartrand, T. L. (2011). Embodied emotion perception: amplifying and dampening facial feedback modulates emotion perception accuracy. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 2(6), 673-678. 


Neary, N. M., Small, C. J., & Bloom, S. R. (2003). Gut and mind. Gut, 52(7), 918-921. 


Shackell, E. M., & Standing, L. G. (2007). Mind Over Matter: Mental Training Increases Physical Strength. North American Journal of Psychology, 9(1). 


Zamanian, A., Jolfaei, A. G., Mehran, G., & Azizian, Z. (2017). Efficacy of botox versus placebo for treatment of patients with major depression. Iranian journal of public health, 46(7), 982. 


Khademi, M., Roohaninasab, M., Goodarzi, A., Seirafianpour, F., Dodangeh, M., & Khademi, A. (2021). The healing effects of facial BOTOX injection on symptoms of depression alongside its effects on beauty preservation. Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 20(5), 1411-1415. 


Carter, Bradin T., "Is Botox A Safe And Effective Treatment To Reduce Symptoms Of Depression?" (2017). PCOM Physician Assistant Studies Student Scholarship. 404. 


Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Sept 26, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 

01:12 – The Origin Story 

04:41 – The importance of knowing past breaches 

06:20 – The Twitter Breach (The F.U.D. train) 

12:25 – The Twillio Breach 

13:02 – The rise of SMISHING 

25:00 – “Don't click!” 

28:42 – The Cisco Breach 

29:19 – MFA Fatigue 

36:18 – The role of Social Engineering in these attacks 

39:40 – Find us online 

  • Chris Hadnagy 
  • Patrick Laverty 

39:59 – Book (and Bees) Recommendations 

Today we are joined by Erin Maloney. Erin earned her Bachelor of Science degree in psychology from Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia, PA. She then earned her master’s degree in social work from Widener University in Chester, PA. Erin holds a license as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. Erin has worked in the behavioral and mental health field for over 20 years. Her experience has included: case management, addiction counseling, behavioral specialty work, school based behavioral health services, and private practice. Erin has worked with a wide range of clients from young children to older adults with a variety of mental health needs.  

Erin is also the Director of Wellness for the Innocent Lives Foundation. She has a strong passion for the mission of the foundation to help protect innocent children.  [Sept 19, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:24 – Intro Links 

02:54 – Erin Maloney Intro 

04:11 – What motivated you to become a mental health expert? 

06:58 – Helping the Helpers 

09:26 – What is "burnout" and what does it look like? 

12:35 – Tired or Exhausted? 

13:26 – Where "burnout" can come from 

14:12 – Burnout Prevention 

15:35 – The Importance of “NO” 

19:54 – How to get off the road to "burnout" 

21:08 – When open communication isn't there 

22:51 – The physical toll is real! 

24:58 – What else can we do? (Mixing it up) 

27:59 – Resources to help with burnout 

31:10 – The "little things" help 

32:01 – Is there anyone who helped you get to where you are? 

34:35 – Book Recommendations 

36:53 – Find Erin Maloney online 

37:24 – Wrap Up  

37:43 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Ronald E. Riggio, Ph.D., the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College. Dr. Riggio is a social/personality psychologist and leadership scholar with more than a dozen authored or edited books and more than 150 articles/book chapters. His research interests are in leadership and organizational communication, particularly leader nonverbal communication, and emotional competence.  He is part of the Fullerton Longitudinal Study that is examining leadership development across the lifespan (beginning at 1 year of age and continuing through adulthood).   

 [Sept 12th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

00:20 – Intro Links 

03:02 – Dr. Ron Riggio Intro 

04:13 – How did you become a professor of leadership? 

07:41 – What year did you start focusing on charisma? 

09:16 – The importance of charisma for leadership 

12:49 – How does one learn to develop personal charisma? 

15:27 – How important is getting gestures right? 

18:22 – The benefits of showing emotional expressions 

21:41 – Dynamic Attractiveness 

23:45 – What can I do to become a better leader? 

26:51 – Transformational Leadership 

28:34 – Leaders need to know their followers 

29:41 – How do you lead at scale? 

32:42 – Developing leadership capacity in others 

35:44 – The attraction to the "Strong Man" 

40:11 – Spare the rod 

44:16 – Who do you consider your biggest mentors? 

47:04 – Book Recommendations: 

50:58 – Find Dr. Riggio on the web 

51:54 – Guest Wrap Up 

52:28 – Outro 

Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology.  


This is Episode 177 and hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. 


Joining Chris is co-host Dr. Abbie Maroño. Abbie is Director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, and a perception management coach. She has a PhD in Behaviour analysis and specializes in nonverbal communication, trust, and cooperation. 


Today’s conversation will be on the topic of Subliminal Persuasion. [Sep 05, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

00:27 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 

03:26 – Why this podcast? 

04:28 – The topic of the day: Subliminal Persuasion 

05:46 – What is Subliminal Persuasion? 

07:03 – The Coca-Cola & popcorn myth 

09:08 – Judas Priest Lawsuit 

10:32 – Sex on ice, does it work? 

15:00 – Getting warmer... 

16:08 – ...and colder 

18:49 – The importance of being attentive 

21:28 – Does it pass the smell test? 

22:59 – Can Prime lead to Persuasion? 

24:34 – The necessity of Motivation 

27:05 – Does Belief play a role? 

28:17 – The Smell of Fear 

32:52 – Applying the Subliminal 

38:58 – The limitations of application 

41:26 – Subtle Psychology 

44:33 – Book Recommendations 

45:42 – Find Dr. Abbie Maroño on the web 

46:26 – Find Chris on the web 

46:41 – Wrap Up  


Select research: 

Chen, Z., Tan, Y., Zhang, Z., & Li, M. (2021). Research on subliminal visual messages based on EEG signal and convolutional neural network. In MATEC Web of Conferences (Vol. 336, p. 05014). EDP Sciences. 

Damaskinidis, G., & Kostopoulou, L. (2021). Intersemiotic Translation of Subliminal Messages in Brand Logos: A Qualitative Experimental Research. International Journal of Semiotics and Visual Rhetoric (IJSVR), 5(1), 1-14. 

Dijksterhuis, A., Aarts, H., & Smith, P. K. (2005). The power of the subliminal: On subliminal persuasion and other potential applications. The new unconscious, 1, 77-106. 

Epley, N., Savitsky, K., & Kachelski, R. A. (1999). What every skeptic should know about subliminal persuasion. Skeptical Inquirer, 23(5), 40-45. 


Hsu, L., & Chen, Y. J. (2020). Neuromarketing, subliminal advertising, and hotel selection: An EEG study. Australasian Marketing Journal (AMJ), 28(4), 200-208. 


Li, N., Juan, L., Xin, W., & Xiang-hong, S. (2011, March). Effect of sustained subliminal auditory stimulus on human emotion. In International Conference on Information Science and Technology (pp. 381-384). IEEE. 


Loersch, C., Durso, G. R., & Petty, R. E. (2013). Vicissitudes of desire: A matching mechanism for subliminal persuasion. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 4(5), 624-631. 


Riener, A. (2012). Subliminal persuasion and its potential for driver behavior adaptation. IEEE Transactions on Intelligent Transportation Systems, 13(1), 71-80. 


Smarandescu, L., & Shimp, T. A. (2015). Drink coca-cola, eat popcorn, and choose powerade: testing the limits of subliminal persuasion. Marketing Letters, 26(4), 715-726. 


Strahan, E. J., Spencer, S. J., & Zanna, M. P. (2002). Subliminal priming and persuasion: Striking while the iron is hot. Journal of experimental social psychology, 38(6), 556-568. 


Zacharia, A. B., Hamelin, N., Harcar, T., & Rodgers, P. (2020). A Neuro Analysis of Static Subliminal Advertising in Packaging. EDITORIAL 77, 29, 81-104. 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Nishant Bhajaria. Nishant is an executive leader and industry-expert in the privacy and security space and currently serves as the Director of Privacy Engineering and Governance at Uber. 

He plays the critical role connecting engineering, legal, and leadership to ensure data protection for both the user and the business. Prior to Uber, Nishant spearheaded compliance and privacy engineering programs at Google, Netflix and Nike. He has a Master’s Degree in computer science from Arizona State University 

In addition to speaking extensively in this space, Nishant also teaches courses around privacy, security and career development on LinkedIn Learning. Nishant authored Data Privacy: A Runbook for Engineers - a deep dive into strategies on effectively identifying, communicating and addressing privacy risks using technical strategies. [Aug 15, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:20 – Intro Links 

02:17 – Nishant Bhajaria Intro 

03:33 – How did your career path start? 

05:44 – Balancing security and the end-user experience 

09:29 – How to introduce security and privacy concepts into a pre-existing infrastructure 

13:50 – Balancing technological freedom with security for your family 

19:28 – Bridging divisions for the sake of privacy and security 

22:09 – Creating better industry standards 

26:28 – How to handle your platform becoming weaponized 

30:53 – The ethical issue of data use 

35:11 – The role of Social Engineering in privacy and security 

39:14 – 3 action steps that companies should start doing right now 

42:56 – Find Nishant online 

44:24 – Book Recommendations 

47:13 – Wrap Up  

47:41 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Hala Taha. Hala, who has been dubbed the “The Podcast Princess,” is the host of Young and Profiting (YAP) Podcast, which is frequently ranked as a #1 Education podcast across all apps. Hala is also the founder and CEO of YAP Media, a social media and podcast marketing agency for top podcasters, celebrities and CEOs. She is well-known for her engaged following and influence on LinkedIn, and she landed the January 2021 cover of Podcast Magazine. 


Hala is an expert on networking, personal branding, leadership, social media, side hustles, entrepreneurship and podcasting. [Aug 8th, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro  

02:05 – Hala Taha Intro 

03:14 – How did you end up running a media company? 

05:43 – The journey towards starting YAP Media 

07:01 – The early days of podcasting 

09:22 – Resources for podcasting (2018 vs 2022) 

10:38 – How did you transform a podcast into a media company? 

16:20 – Taking Risks vs Being Smart 

18:29 – The importance of pure intentions 

20:44 – The secrets to finding like-minded team members 

21:56 – What have been your biggest struggles while growing your company? 

22:52 – Quality time with a remote team 

24:51 – Maintaining the work-culture across time zones 

26:35 – Tips for starting out 

30:25 – Building the right foundation 

32:27 – Find Hala online 

33:15 – Who have been your mentors? 

35:21 – Book Recommendations: 

36:17 – Guest Wrap Up 

36:28 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by the Chief Operating Officer of the ILF, Shane McCombs.  

Shane leads the ILF with more than 25 years of experience in the tech industry, including more than a decade of experience in C-level roles. He led enterprise-wide initiatives within project management, customer relationship management and acquisition, policies and procedures, process improvement, and infrastructure. Shane is also an accomplished public speaker and trainer focused on change management, professionalism, social engineering, and corporate security. In the past, he volunteered for the Autism Hope Alliance and currently donates his time to businesses and non-profits as a trusted advisor. [July 18, 2022]  

00:00 – Intro 

01:02 – Intro Links 

04:41 – Shane McCombs Intro 

06:14 – What got you started off in InfoSec? 

08:36 – What led you to want to do more in the industry? 

10:40 – “Throwing your hat in the ring” 

17:31 – Cybersecurity for kids and parents 

19:52 – How to "minor" in a "major" topic 

22:29 – Age appropriate conversations 

25:12 – Additional concerns in the summer months 

28:38 – The TRUST Framework 

31:40 – The importance of communication 

40:16 – The "stats" of ILF 

43:50 – Who is your biggest mentor?  
- his wife  

45:32 – Book Recommendations 

Today Chris is talking with Laurie Segall. Laurie is the founder of Dot Dot Dot, a media company focused on onboarding the mainstream into a new era of the internet, Web3. Laurie is an award-winning journalist who has interviewed the world’s most influential tech leaders including Mark Zuckerberg and Tim Cook. Prior, she was CNN’s senior tech correspondent, covering technology and culture for a decade and a former reporter for 60 Minutes. [July 11, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

04:20 – Starting your career in the "wee hours"  

07:54 – Was journalism always the goal? 

12:31 – Navigating chaos 

15:57 – Taking on Revenge Porn 

21:20 – What motivated you to write about your life so early? 

24:46 – Writing during the pandemic 

29:50 – How lobsters grow  

35:44 – Building a company 

38:40 – Wearing 2 hats 

40:54 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

43:38 – Book Recommendations: 

45:56 – Find Laurie Segall online 

  • Website link: 
  • Instagram: @LaurieSegall & @d3_network 
  • Twitter: @LaurieSegall & @d3_network 

48:32 – Guest Wrap Up & Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Ted Harrington. Ted is the author of HACKABLE: How to Do Application Security Right and the Executive Partner at Independent Security Evaluators (ISE), the company of ethical hackers famous for hacking cars, medical devices, and password managers. Ted has been named both Executive of the Year by the American Business Awards and an SD Metro 40 Under 40 entrepreneur. Ted has been featured in more than 100 media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and Forbes. [June 20, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links 

02:32 – Ted Harrington Intro 

03:21 – How did you start off in this industry? 

06:15 – Explain it like I'm 12 years old 

07:59 – The origins of ISE  

09:32 – Is there a "perfect" Password Manager? 

14:11 – How to communicate at the executive level 

16:54 – The right and wrong ways of investing in security 

25:17 – Responsible Disclosure 

29:04 – The challenges of the Medical Device field 

32:39 – The problem with legislation driving security  

34:20 – The manufacturers’ role in safety and security  

36:00 – Who is the book "Hackable" for? 

38:05 – Find Ted online 

38:37 – Book Recommendations 

41:04 – Who is your biggest mentor? 

45:35 – Wrap Up  

46:17 – Outro 

Today Chris is talking with Clay Drinko, Ph.D. Clay is an author and educator. He writes for Psychology Today about the intersection between improv comedy, science, and everyday life. He's also the author of the first academic book connecting improv and cognitive science, Theatrical Improvisation, Consciousness, and Cognition. His most recent book, Play Your Way Sane, was published by Simon & Schuster last year and applies his improv research to everyday life. [June 14, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

02:27 – Clay Drinko intro 

03:27 – How does someone in Improv decide to study Cognitive Science? 

05:46 – Losing anxiousness through performance 

07:34 – The importance of a shift in focus 

08:52 – Active Listening 

11:41 – Yes, and... 

14:01 – Don't try to be funny 

15:54 – Establishing "who" and "where" you are 

18:57 – How do you apply Cognitive Science to the idea of improv? 

21:56 – Leaving your "baggage" at the door 

25:13 – Managing the negative 

26:40 – What are the biggest life skills you've learned from improv? 

28:13 – Reflective questioning - Empathy or Selfishness? 

31:03 – You are not special 

34:29 – Do you want my help? 

37:37 – Find Clay Drinko online 

38:13 – Book Recommendations: 

40:34 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

43:14 – Guest Wrap Up 

44:04 – Outro 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Adam Glick. Adam is currently the Chief Information Security Officer for SimpliSafe in Boston, MA. In this position and his previous jobs, Adam has had the responsibility of managing all matters pertaining to information security, risk, policy, and procedures. Adam is currently an adjunct professor at Boston College in the cybersecurity policy & governance program, and an adjunct professor of IT in the MBA program at the School of Business at Providence College. Outside of the office, he is a car and technology enthusiast along with an avid reader, hiker, cyclist, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner.  

[May 16, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:56 – Intro Links 

02:52 – Adam Glick Intro 

04:05 – How did you get started in Information Security? 

05:10 – Applying a background in teaching to InfoSec 

06:37 – Developing security programs for different environments 

08:14 – Getting people to think about security 

09:32 – Microtraining: Updating the way that we train for security 

12:10 – The importance of security in our Professional and Personal lives 

14:28 – Customizing security training for large companies 

15:29 – Approaching security from a Top-Down perspective 

17:20 – Getting top management to support security training 

20:55 – Action steps for companies to focus on 

  • Cyber Hygiene 
  • Risk Based Methodology 

23:22 – How can companies assess their own risk? 

26:55 – Internal interviews to build security protocols 

28:47 – Jiu Jitsu Security??? 

29:58 – How to contact Adam online 

31:19 – Who are your greatest mentors? 

Today we will be talking with Abbie Maroño, a nonverbal communications and social influence coach. Abbie published her first paper in nonverbal communication at 19 years old, going on to do her PhD in behavior analysis and become a university lecturer at 23. She now directs a research group, BRINC, alongside her coaching and teaching. [May 9, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

04:47 – At what point in your life did you want to become a Nonverbal expert? 

06:56 – The reality of getting to where you want to be 

08:39 – What kept you going after rejections? 

11:15 – How does a person learn to find their passion? 

14:06 – How did you decide to make Nonverbal Communications a career? 

17:53 – How important is Open VS Closed Body Language? 

23:00 – What is orientation and why does it matter? 

27:49 – The role of body language in a virtual setting 

33:30 – The "perception" of eye-contact in a video call 

35:31 – Find Abbie Maroño on the web 

36:05 – New Job Announcement 

38:16 – Who would you consider your biggest mentors? 

This month, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Patrick Laverty. Patrick is the Senior Team Lead at Social Engineer, LLC, working with an incredible team of professional social engineers. He was previously a senior penetration tester at Rapid7 and a member of the CSIRT at Akamai. He is a co-organizer of the Layer 8 Conference and is the host of the Layer 8 Podcast on social engineering and OSINT. He lives in Rhode Island with his daughter, dog and two cats. [April 18, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

00:50 – Patrick Laverty intro 

02:19 – Intro Links 

04:38 – Security Awareness in the world today 

05:25 – Malicious Domain Registrations 

06:58 – Protecting yourself from false domains 

11:24 – CISA Alert / Shields Up 

12:36 – Lowering Reporting Thresholds 

13:33 – Empowering Security Information Officers 

16:50 – Tabletop Exercises 

19:20 – Planning for Continuity 

21:09 – Beyond the Financial Effects of Ransomware 

24:29 – Trying to protect the Healthcare Sector 

25:27 – Backup & Recovery Process 

28:38 – The source of Ransomware 

30:03 – Planning for a Ransomware attack 

31:51 – Why your site will be attacked 

33:41 – 3 Actionable Tips 

35:30 – Book Recommendations 

38:20 – Wrap Up  

39:18 – Outro 

Today we will be talking with Vanessa Bohns. Vanessa is a social psychologist and professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University. She holds a PhD from Columbia University and an AB from Brown University. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review, and her research has been widely featured in the media, including The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and on NPR’s Hidden Brain. Her first book, You Have More Influence Than You Think, was just published in September 2021. [April 11, 2022]

00:00 – Intro

01:53 – Vanessa Bohns intro

02:43 – How did you make Social Influence your field?

05:48 – Why do we assume people will be negative when we make a request?

08:01 – The surprising results of asking for things

11:12 – We are wired to be agreeable

13:34 – What are the security implications of our default attitudes?

16:59 – What are the consequences of underestimating your own influence?

19:32 – Understanding how the situation can influence ethics

21:05 – What would you say is your favorite find?

21:48 – Enlisting someone to influence their ethics

24:00 – Paying attention to the human side of security

25:04 – What is your next study?

27:11 – The importance of a predefined script

28:54 – Will "keywords" change a person’s sense of agreeability?

30:10 – Recognizing your own influence

31:41 – Who would you consider some of your biggest mentors?

  • Frank Flynn – Professor
  • Father

33:39 – Book Recommendations:

35:47 – Guest Wrap Up

36:17 – Find Vanessa Bohns on the web

36:49 – Outro


This month we are joined by Dr. Camille Preston, who is the CEO and founder of AIM Leadership. Since founding AIM Leadership in 2004, she has worked with leaders across sectors and the capital stack. As a business psychologist, Camille brings research and insights from psychology, neuroscience, and business to her work. Whether supporting Fortune 500 leaders, startup founders, or C-suite executives in healthcare, Camille's sweet spot is helping uncover hidden barriers to increase the capacity to optimize, innovate, and manage change.   

In addition to working as a coach and business psychologist, Camille is author of two books, a regular contributor to several established publications in the business and psychology fields, and the author of a growing library of actionable resource tools.  

A life-long challenge seeker, Camille has lived on four continents, worked on six, and traveled extensively. [March 14, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

01:25 Dr. Camille Preston Intro 

02:43 How did you get into this? 

05:02 The Journey to Awareness & Mindfulness 

06:39 Building Mindfulness 

08:32 Horizontal VS Vertical Development 

10:00 Gateways of Vertical Development 

11:41 Owning Mistakes 

14:02 Planning For Problem Solving  

15:12 Building Trust 

16:21 Authentic Connections in a Virtual World 

19:24 Mental Health Pandemic 

21:25 The Importance of Great Leadership 

22:41 Integrating Head and Heart 

23:53 What makes someone “all heart”? 

26:51 The Importance of Leaving Your Country 

29:45 – Who are your greatest mentors? 

33:36 – Book Recommendations: 

35:21 – Guest Wrap Up 

35:37 – Outro 

This month Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Kathleen (Kate) Mullin. Kate is an influential information security practitioner with over 30 years of experience. Kate currently is CISO with Cancer Treatment Centers of America.  Kate has been CISO at various organizations including start-ups, publicly traded, private equity, not-for-profit, and governmental entities. Throughout her career, Kate has volunteered and participated in maturing information security as a profession. She volunteers with ISC(2) and ISACA and has been a member of the ISACA CGEIT Certification and Credentials Committee and a chapter president. Kate serves as a featured international speaker and panelist. She has a BSBA from St Joseph’s College and an MBA from Florida Metropolitan University. Kate is also certified as a Master Level Social Engineer. [February 21, 2022] 

00:00 – Intro 

03:09 – Kathleen Mullin intro 

04:25 – How did you get started in Information Security? 

06:39 – What are some indicators that tells you something is ineffective? 

10:21 – Do you think the “cookie cutter” type of training is a reflection on the security awareness team itself? 

12:16 – How can you offer the more personalized training to a company that is spread out all over the U.S. or the globe? 

16:31 – Is having someone in this position who is focused on the people and the results the way to go about having the program be successful? 

18:09 – What are your major security concerns being in the healthcare industry, and how are you dealing with those? 

21:08 – We are seeing SMishing attacks becoming more prevalent in general. Are you seeing that happening in your industry? 

22:47 – Caring about employees’ security outside of work as well 

23:35 – What are some action steps that any company can start doing right now? 

  • Have metrics and measure training effectiveness 
  • Humanize your training 
  • Incremental steps 
  • Care about your users for real 

26:11 – Demoralizing phishing techniques 

28:15 – Book Recommendations: 

30:13 – Who would you consider your greatest mentor? 

34:27 – Finding Kate on the web: 

35:17 – Guest Wrap Up 

36:00 – Outro 

This month Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by John Strand from Black Hills Information Security. John has both consulted and taught hundreds of organizations in the areas of security, regulatory compliance, and penetration testing.  He is a coveted speaker and much-loved SANS teacher. John is a contributor to the industry-shaping Penetration Testing Execution Standard and 20 Critical Controls frameworks.  He enjoys mountain biking, getting hurt mountain biking, sucking at surfing, and heavy music. January 17th 2022 

00:00 – Intro 


02:40 – John Strand Info 

03:31 - ILF 

04:51 - Ryan intro 

06:30 – Chat about Chris getting his company started 

08:21 - How did you get started with your own company? 

12:17 - Cows 

14:56 – The idea of travel and never seeing your family 

15:57 - What was the point where you started to feel “this company is going to work” 

18:35 – Creating company loyalty 

22:06 - “Pay What You Can” training 

30:22 – More on how the pandemic changed workflow 

34:03 – More on pay-what-you-can training – management of 5,000 people 

41:41 – How can someone take action right now? 

44:59 – Favorite Books 

47:55 – Who is your biggest mentor 

51:34 – Guest Wrap-Up 

52:30 - Outro 



This is a special edition of Social-Engineer's Human Element Series Podcast.  Chris Hadnagy will discuss Covid-19 testing site scams, and how you can protect yourself against them. [January 14, 2022]


00:00 – Intro

00:21 – Covid-19 Testing Site Physical Scams

05:46 – Other types of scams during Covid-19

06:44 – Outro


This month Chris Hadnagy is joined by the fascinating Amy Herman. Amy is a lawyer and an art historian who uses works of art to sharpen observation, analysis, and communication skills. She developed her Art of Perception seminar in 2000 and since then has worked with the New York City Police Department, the FBI, Department of Defense, Fortune 500 companies and more. She is also a TED speaker and an author of 2 books. Her latest book, “Fixed: How to Perfect the Fine Art of Problem-Solving was just released in December of 2021. She is also going to be bringing her fascinating training seminar to the Human Behavior Conference this March! [January 10, 2022] 


00:00 – Intro 

02:39 -  Amy Herman Intro 

04:17 – Tell us how you got to where you are today 

07:12 – How did you get to the conclusion where two different people from the same class have different needs? 

10:00 – Is there an equation or secret about how an every day person can use that skill? 

13:33 – Amy's new book, “Fixed”

15:00 – How did you come up with the concept of this book? 

18:00 – What is the hope you want for people who read this? 

19:52 – How has the past 18 months changed the concepts of visual intelligence? 

25:55 – Are you going to keep virtual training? 

29:50 – Being more empathetic and finding common ground 

32:31 – Can you explain “pertinent negative” from your book? 

35:34 – Tell the story about your book cover 

40:36 – Besides yours what are some of your favorite books? 


Instagram: @AmyHermanAOP